Current Page: 1 of 4
Are we going to appeal Arrowgate?
Posted by: chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
Date: 29 September, 2017 15:16

It seems we haven't totally ruled out the possibility of going through the courts.

[www.standard.co.uk]

The article is mostly about the Taunton pitch, but final paragraph again makes the point we were told on the day there would be no points penalty.

To me, if the umpires had said on the day, 'Sorry. No can do' then that would have been that, because I do understand the principle that you can't start 'assumimg' things normally, but this wasn't normal.

Vague memories of A level law tells me something does not have to be in writing to be legally binding. 'My word is my bond' seems to ring bells, but you need witnesses. If any surrey players heard the verbal agreement it would be handy

Probably only a 5% chance of getting it overturned, but it looks like we haven't completely given up hope yet, and are 'considering our options'.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2017 20:25 by Leprechaun.

Re: Are we going to appeal Arrowgate?
Posted by: BarmierKev (IP Logged)
Date: 29 September, 2017 17:03

I feel this is too late. Tactics were employed based on positions at the time by all Counties involved in the scrap at the end. We had to sort it there and then. From a very reliable source I have been told we put up a very good fight based on evidence were are all aware of, but the clueless ECB were not prepared to give way.



Barmy Kev
I'm only here for the tele

Re: Are we going to appeal Arrowgate?
Posted by: The Diamond ruled ok (IP Logged)
Date: 29 September, 2017 21:32

I hope we do not appeal this.

The ECB stated their position and are highly unlikely to change their stance on this matter.Being the body in charge of the rules and regulations of the game in these Isles no matter how unfair we all know this is their decision is final.

Only people to win out of any appeal would be the lawyers and the ultimate losers would be Middlesex wasting members money on a litigation we would almost certainly lose in any court.

Time to man up,accept we were very poor this season and go again next term with a change of mentality and a better work ethic in the squad.

Re: Are we going to appeal Arrowgate?
Posted by: chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
Date: 30 September, 2017 07:40


Re: Are we going to appeal Arrowgate?
Posted by: freddie tittlemouse (IP Logged)
Date: 30 September, 2017 11:43

What's the point of complaining now? Just looks like sour grapes. We should have taken it up at the time the points were deducted.

Re: Are we going to appeal Arrowgate?
Posted by: adelaide (IP Logged)
Date: 30 September, 2017 12:36

Freddie

We are told that we did take it up at the time but then we appear to have accepted it I agree that it is too late to revisit it, as other teams would correctly argue that their strategies would have been different without the deduction.

I wonder if the players (and Gus) feel that they have been let down and what we are now reading is a reaction to that. They have every right to feel angry (while not forgetting to look hard at themselves, I trust) but venting in public at this stage does not look good.


Adelaide

Re: Are we going to appeal Arrowgate?
Posted by: Big Harvey (IP Logged)
Date: 30 September, 2017 14:07

I'm glad others feel the same as I do about this. Kev makes a very good point about ourselves and others basing our tactics for recent matches on knowing the points deduction had been made, however unfairly.

We need to move on, and most importantly do something about the low over rate culture that has come very close to getting us relegated before. We've been excessively reliant on the efforts of Don Shelley for too long.

Re: Are we going to appeal Arrowgate?
Posted by: The Diamond ruled ok (IP Logged)
Date: 30 September, 2017 16:12

We have relied far to heavily on our "13th man" the great Don Shelley for so long he has often over a season saved us more points than our batsmen have made us in games.

How about next season we have a radical approach of not stressing The Don by actually bowling our overs in the allotted time ? OK TRJ's run up is excessive but if it works for him and he is taking wickets do we dare change it? How about we adapt to give him time,bowl more spin,pair him with quicks who bowl at a faster rate per hour,STOP FAFFING AROUND between balls/overs ! There is no need for the skipper to have a conversation with the bowler after every ball surely? Get out there with a plan,stick to it and get the job done.

Re: Are we going to appeal Arrowgate?
Posted by: hdo (IP Logged)
Date: 30 September, 2017 17:44

Depends who the skipper is next season...

Re: Are we going to appeal Arrowgate?
Posted by: dingy bags (IP Logged)
Date: 01 October, 2017 19:11

The decision not to take the appeal further at the time tells me that we were sure it would not actually cost us. This sums up our long-term complacency about the over rate and the complacency we have shown all year, until about the time the players were running to cover up Uxbridge, having just realised we could be relegated.

When we failed to enforce the follow-on against Essex, it was pointed out that this decision was taken by the dressing room that won the championship. More to the point, it was taken by the dressing room that got relegated. Too much looking back this season, starting with the celebration of the championship win after the AGM in April, when the time for celebrating should have expired months ago. And this is not hindsight: I said it at the time and did not attend.

Re: Are we going to appeal Arrowgate?
Posted by: Darren Gosling (IP Logged)
Date: 02 October, 2017 22:27

Completely agree with your post FT, spot on.
Needed someone with bigger balls than Goatley to have taken it on at the time...

Re: Are we going to appeal Arrowgate?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 02 October, 2017 22:52

I have it on fairly good authority, from George Dobell, that it is apparently extremely unlikely that the ECB will opt to restore the points deducted at the Oval due to their fear that it would create a damaging precedent.

One of our posters suggested (and I agree with her) that, in future, over-rate rules should apply to each innings of a four day match to end the artificial situation of a side dawdling through the first innings and then throwing on spinners for the sake of making up the over rate in the second.

Re: Are we going to appeal Arrowgate?
Posted by: adelaide (IP Logged)
Date: 02 October, 2017 23:52

Quote:
AGod
I have it on fairly good authority, from George Dobell, that it is apparently extremely unlikely that the ECB will opt to restore the points deducted at the Oval due to their fear that it would create a damaging precedent.
One of our posters suggested (and I agree with her) that, in future, over-rate rules should apply to each innings of a four day match to end the artificial situation of a side dawdling through the first innings and then throwing on spinners for the sake of making up the over rate in the second.

Do I detect a bit of Barchester Chronicles at the start of the second paragraph, AGod? I thought I had copyrighted that suggestion a week or so back. I think it would be reasonable to set the bar a bit higher in the second innings than first (17 vs 15, perhaps?) to match whatever the normal discrepancy between innings is. Also no penalty if the innings lasts less than X hours.


Adelaide

Re: Are we going to appeal Arrowgate?
Posted by: chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 18:10

Now, I don't know if this is true, but I've read it on another forum, but, apparently on Sky Sports News this morning David Fulton said we WILL get our points back- and it will be back to 9 teams per division- so Warwickshire down, Worcestershire and Notts up.

Edit- I should have said 'highly probable' rather than it's definite.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2017 18:11 by chunkyinargyll.

Re: Are we going to appeal Arrowgate?
Posted by: The Diamond ruled ok (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 20:54

Hang on ..... if we get our points back why do they need to change the divisional structure again , just relegate Somerset who will finish below us by 1 point , simple.

And the bleating from the West Country will be audible at Lord's for years to come if they do.

Just leave it,we didn't compete last season and are lucky to be able to regroup in div 2.

Let it go,act like gentlemen rather than keep bleating about it. The ECB said no points changes and if they do back down how stupid and out of control will they look.

Re: Are we going to appeal Arrowgate?
Posted by: adelaide (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 21:29

I'd look at it the other way round. If the structure was changing for next season the arrowgate points would be immaterial.

It would be unusual, to say the least, for the structure to be changed without a full season's notice and it would surely be seen as Middlesex being looked after, so I cannot see it happening. It is true, I suppose, that no other county would suffer as a result, but even so.

The Durham points deduction was retrospective last season. Again, no other county actually suffered as a result but one of the objections raised against reinstating our points (not that I expect or want that at this stage) was that other counties would then have approached matches differently. I don't think it would have had any effect last year but just suppose a county had gone for a win because a draw was not good enough but lost going for the win when, given the subsequent deduction for Durham, a draw (but not a loss) would have been enough. It gets murkier and murkier.


Adelaide

Re: Are we going to appeal Arrowgate?
Posted by: BeefyRoberts (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 21:37

Change the county set up to suit us??
NO THANK YOU.
To be honest,it would leave a very bitter taste in my mouth,and be slightly embarrassing as well.
Imagine the stick we will get for many years,probably be the least liked county in cricket as well.Already few comments flying around Twitter.
Let's do it the right way,play the game how it should be and win promotion next season.

Re: Are we going to appeal Arrowgate?
Posted by: chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 21:45

Adelaide-

It's actually a poster on WRF who said Fulton was on Sky this morning (didn't see it myself) and he apparently said this was the most likely outcome (so I assume Fulton had a source, rather than just busking it)

If you add that to last nights forum, which seemed to imply sympathetic noises, the fact we were promised no points deduction, and it was simply umpires forgot (it wasn't ECB over ruling umpires, it was just their stance that once signed off, the report couldn't be altered) and it would seem ECB have come to same conclusion as some of us, namely whoever went down with Warwickshire would have a right to feel aggrieved.

I can't see other counties complaining. It becomes harder to get relegated (2 out of 9 go down, instead of 8) and easier to get promoted (2 out of 9, instead of 2 out of 10)

It would mean playing 2 teams only once, but you can just as easily be unlucky by having a fixture ruined by rain.

Seems all concerned see this as the easiest way out.

If it doesn't happen, blame Fulton for saying it.

Re: Are we going to appeal Arrowgate?
Posted by: chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 21:53

Beefy- I don't think anyone is really against Hampshire for surviving at Durham's expense last year, and Bransgrove was lobbying hard for Durham to be penalised (so not sitting back passively)

Therefore I can't really see supporters of other counties being particularly bothered.

As I said before, it's about 50/50 on all the forums I look at, so I can't see us being universally hated.

Re: Are we going to appeal Arrowgate?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 03 October, 2017 22:24

I think many people are against Hants due to Bransgrove's shameful lobbying.

However, in a world where Surrey exist, neither they nor Middx have a cat in hell's chance of ever being the most disliked county side.

Current Page: 1 of 4
This Thread has been closed
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net