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Should they stay or should they go
Posted by: Ebor Gooner (IP Logged)
Date: 12 September, 2019 23:59

Might be too early in the season, and I appreciate players might already be under contract, but in an ideal world, who would you retain, and who would you now regard as "surplus to requirements"?

I won't influence your decision with my own opinion, but I'm interested in how my fellow Middle fans would look to improve our performances next season.

Re: Should they stay or should they go
Posted by: chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
Date: 13 September, 2019 07:10

I think the only people whose contracts are up are Barber, Rayner and Morgan.

I assume the latter stays if he wants to. I realise your question excluded 'Who is out of contract?' but others probably deserve another year anyway. It won't be easy to attract new players from other counties as we are stuck in Division 2.

I'll be a bit more positive and say that from our academy I'd be giving first contracts to Josh De Caires, Blake Cullen, Thilan Walallawita, Luke Holman and possibly Max John. The club seem to like Joe Cracknell, as he's been a near ever present in the 2's, but his weight of runs hasn't been outstanding. Maybe he's another Tom Lace whose 2nd XI form for us was nothing special last year, but did extremely well on loan for Derbyshire this year.

The departure of Stirling means one new batsman (overseas or from elsewhere) is must, plus if it was April 2020 now I'd be giving Lace a chance to see if he can replicate his Derbyshire form for us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/09/2019 07:26 by chunkyinargyll.

Re: Should they stay or should they go
Posted by: Seaxe_man1 (IP Logged)
Date: 13 September, 2019 11:49

Unfortunately, the next generation of MX players have already gone.

Re: Should they stay or should they go
Posted by: antryg (IP Logged)
Date: 13 September, 2019 16:38

True Seaxe_man1 but at least Gus seems to accep they made mistakes in his comments today which is a start. You can't change unless you acknowledge what went wrong.

It adds to the time it will take to recover but maybe 2021 is the year

Re: Should they stay or should they go
Posted by: chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
Date: 13 September, 2019 17:02

Here's what Gus had to say-

[www.middlesexccc.com]

Sounds like he might be coming round to the idea of a senior overseas batsman.

Re: Should they stay or should they go
Posted by: freddie tittlemouse (IP Logged)
Date: 13 September, 2019 17:18

If players are under contract, the only way of "releasing" them is to buy them out of their contracts, farm them out to other counties, encourage them to sign for other counties or "Compton" them. None of these seem likely with our current squad.

Re: Should they stay or should they go
Posted by: Jonathan Winsky (IP Logged)
Date: 13 September, 2019 20:08

I don’t think Angus Fraser wants to lose any members of Middlesex’s current squad if he can help it. It is great to hear him - and Dawid Malan yesterday - suggesting that we may make some signings (or a signing) in the batting department this winter, as I was beginning to think that we had forgotten how to sign players or had misplaced our chequebook or debit card as a result of the fact we have barely used them in recent years.

It will be interesting to see if we are in the market for Haseeb Hameed after his release by Lancashire, as I would like to think he will find another county long before the 2020 season starts, and I am sure that there will be many coaches on the county circuit who would like to ultimately get him back into England contention. My heart would sink a bit if another county ends up signing Hameed. I wouldn’t have thought that Sam Robson, Nick Gubbins, Stephen Eskinazi and the other members of our squad who aspire to bat in the top three would feel pleased were we to bring in Hameed, but it is their own fault for not scoring enough runs.

Re: Should they stay or should they go
Posted by: MB (IP Logged)
Date: 13 September, 2019 21:16

Out of all the first class counties i m not confident that we currently offer the best environment for an out of form batsman to come in and rediscover that form

Re: Should they stay or should they go
Posted by: Bring back the Crusaders (IP Logged)
Date: 13 September, 2019 21:31

If we don't lose any members of the current squad and replace them we will not improve.
Maybe its Mr. Fraser we should lose as architect of the last 3 years of mediocracy.

Re: Should they stay or should they go
Posted by: chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
Date: 13 September, 2019 21:42

JW- I can't see us signing Haseeb Hameed.

The last thing we need is someone who averages about 25.

We've already got three batsmen of our own- Gubbins, Eskinazi and Holden who will need work to get them back to what they are capable of, so whoever we get needs to be as near as possible guaranteed to produce the goods.

I daresay Hameed will end up somewhere, but counties looking to strengthen their batting will see him at best as a punt, and those that don't have a problem may not see the need for him either.

Plus we'd have to sign his dad too. Best avoided.

Re: Should they stay or should they go
Posted by: Fozzie (IP Logged)
Date: 13 September, 2019 22:24

I had been attracted to the idea of signing Hameed, particularly having seen his century against us in April - but Chunky's point about the number of out-of-touch batsmen already on the books is very persuasive.

I was less encouraged by Gus's interview than JW, seeing it primarily as an exercise in managing expectations by emphasising the difficulties in signing a top overseas player for the season (and yes, of course the big gap in the middle of the season doesn't help). Gus also mentions the risk of young players leaving as Higgins and Podmore did, but for me his key message seems to me to be that all players go through bad patches but that confidence can return. Which seems to me to be a default position of carrying on with the same personnel and hoping for a return to their form of 2016.

Personally I'd like to see the club explore Marnus Labuschagne's availability next season.

Re: Should they stay or should they go
Posted by: MB (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2019 09:17

Quote:
Fozzie
I had been attracted to the idea of signing Hameed, particularly having seen his century against us in April - but Chunky's point about the number of out-of-touch batsmen already on the books is very persuasive.
I was less encouraged by Gus's interview than JW, seeing it primarily as an exercise in managing expectations by emphasising the difficulties in signing a top overseas player for the season (and yes, of course the big gap in the middle of the season doesn't help). Gus also mentions the risk of young players leaving as Higgins and Podmore did, but for me his key message seems to me to be that all players go through bad patches but that confidence can return. Which seems to me to be a default position of carrying on with the same personnel and hoping for a return to their form of 2016.

Personally I'd like to see the club explore Marnus Labuschagne's availability next season.

Yes totally agree I wasnt encouraged at all by reading that interview

Re: Should they stay or should they go
Posted by: chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2019 09:24

If we can't get Marnus Labushagne then Matt Renshaw would be a good signing. For whatever reason he doesn't seem to be in Australia's thoughts at the moment.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Re: Should they stay or should they go
Posted by: Ebor Gooner (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2019 19:46

If the experienced players in the squad are performing well then it is hard to make a case for youngsters to get game time. In our case, the youngsters (well the batsmen at least) must be thinking they deserve a chance given how poorly our batters have performed. To my mind we are more likely to lose them because of this, if they aren't even considered, irrespective of whether we sign an overseas batsman, or not.

Then we need to consider that the best sides integrate new players into a high performing unit. We are some way from that, so there is added pressure on anybody who is now given a chance. As someone else said, if we don't make some changes it is unlikely we will see any improvement.

Re: Should they stay or should they go
Posted by: BREARS (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2019 03:35

Frasers interview did not inspire any confidence, full of excuses and this whole "not my fault guv" attitude. Apparently Australia are doing nothing next summer, so their players will be widely available, Id go and get Labushagne, hes exactly what we need, greedy run scorer with a bit of devil about him, Lace has to be given a chance, Gubbins and Eskinazi are midway through their contracts so have to stay but no way either should be regulars. As for the bowlers, Rayner will obviously go, for a left field suggestion, Id try and get Samit Patel, out of favour at Notts, a proper county cricketer, we play CC in April and September, no need for an out and out spinner. I feel we have one too many seamers in the squad, Harris is holding up the progress of Bamber, hes been a good servant but wont improve. Basically we need fresh blood, too many of them have gone stale.

Re: Should they stay or should they go
Posted by: chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2019 07:38

Samit Patel-

9 championship matches for Notts, and a batting average of 17.2

7 wickets at 55.86

If he was in our side you'd be calling for his sacking.

On loan at Glamorgan- 2 matches, batting average 22, bowling average 30.67

And you say Gus Fraser doesn't know what he is doing.

Re: Should they stay or should they go
Posted by: Seaxe_man1 (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2019 11:26

This thread is an interesting read. If as alleged Mr Fraser mentioned losing young players by recruiting experienced ones.

Brings a smile to ones face...on his watch over ten years with his previous henchman...losing young players for lack of opportunity...has been the order of the day.

Sounds like shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted...

Samit Patel.. his best days are behind him though he would be a decent short term loan option in whiteball cricket adding some ooomph to the late middle order... his bowling...tends to fire in it a bit...but any port in a MX storm perhaps.

Hameed suffers from the same problem as The Middle. Can't buy a run..so unlikely to be the solution..

Spinners. Homegrown, there has been none since Tuffers called it a day. Admittedly under Gravesgate difficult for them to shine given the fixture list..

Exceptions. Hampshire and Somerset buck the trend. Critchley at Derby ain't bad plus Parkinson at Lanky,

Ravi Patel was given a grudging few games but like other departees... shared a lack of faith from the coaching set-up..

Three imports... Udal, Kartik and TMJ Smith. The first two went in 2009 after a successful T20 partnership in 2008 under Toby Radford.

Tom Smith MX 2010 to 2013 was a better white ball than red ball player and has continued so at Gloucs.

With Rayner brought in in 2011, he became the preferred option. By his own admission he (Rayner) does not spin the ball. Saying I rely on bounce from my height. So correctly described as a slow bowler.

The policy of the last ten years has been four right arm seamers plus Rayner. I can't help thinking that with a genuine spinner who took regular wickets, we could have dispensed with one seamer.

Wickets plus a green run rate a bonus and opens a position in the order.

A bloke (like Adam Voges) would be handy at number four.

As regards 2020. One bonus... a Brussels type so called level playing field with 8 teams playing each other twice despite Gravesgate.

Only Notts coming down... their cherry picking of Clarke and Duckett aint worked out too well...so we can expect them to strengthen.

As we can expect the six who don't make it this year to do as well.. As regards the Middle..who knows...watch this space.

Re: Should they stay or should they go
Posted by: BREARS (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2019 13:20

“Chunky” Patel was a suggestion, players do tend to have a change of fortune when they move counties. Tim Murtagh! And mate at least I talk about players I’ve seen with my own eyes, you give it all “let’s give these people from the youth a contract “ but you’ve never seen them play!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/09/2019 13:20 by BREARS.

Re: Should they stay or should they go
Posted by: chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2019 14:11

Well Hollman must be very close to a pro contract. He's just been named in the squad against Lancashire.

He also got three hundreds opening the batting in the Middlesex county League this year. Okay, it's club bowling, but he clearly knows one end of the bat from the other.

Re: Should they stay or should they go
Posted by: Seaxe_man1 (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2019 19:46

I forgot...Hashim Amla has packed up international cricket...very experienced...could help as a kolpak. Bats in the top three usually.

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