As one door closes another opens
England Opener?
By Grockle
February 25 2010
Craig Kieswetter and Peter Trego have spent the first part of 2010 making their play for full International recognition with the Lions. Both did enough and our young keeper did more than enough! What does that mean to our starting line-up in April?
147 at more than a run a ball opening for England in their first spring tour game has done two things for Young Kieswetter;
Firstly it has confirmed our man is one of the most exciting prospects in the present setup. A real keeper that does more than add a bit of smack at the end of an innings!
Secondly it should put paid to these ludicrous statements that he's some kind of mercenary tourist taking the place of and 'English' keeper that I personally have heard from Messrs Boycott and Martin Jenkins backed up by some on 606.
Meanwhile Trigger still needs to put in some stuff with the little round red thing to conjour up some of the same excitement but if you aren't in the mix you can't help make the cake better can you?
As we now expect to be without Craig for part of the summer there is a big space in the top 5 and a pair of wicket keeping gloves waiting for someone. Unfortunately with Sam Spurway not moving up from second team cricket and Carl Gazzard reading the papers and believing there is more money in the financial sector, we have none of the established faces in the keeping camp.
Enter Jos Buttler (a possible prospect for the Grocklee of 2010). Batsman and prospective keeper. Is he good enough to fill the gap? The people in the know at Taunton seem to think so and he certainly handled the pressure at the end of the season at home and in Hydrabad impressively. But day to day? It'll be new to him but he certainly seems to have something with the bat.
The committee have said that they will go to the loan system if the keeping issue becomes a problem - but can we afford a period of patience while Jos does or doesn't find his feet? I don't think we can seeing as Murali Khatik does not arrive until the season has started and may then have to develop a relationship with his new keeping partner. Jos HAS to hit the ground running and performing. BIG responsibility for a young man and will really show us his mettle as a professional.
Meanwhile what about Peter? If he does make the grade in the summer (and it looks like his main opposition is Luke Wright) then we have an allrounder gap to fill - who will fill it? It means a batsman of top 6 quality with the ability to put in a third/fourth seamer performance to boot.
Within the established squad? Well Wes might have been a possibility - certainly the batting aspect would not have been a problem but the bowling as a) not seam and b) not particularly effective. Arul can offer that extra slow ball aspect but is already an established part of the top 5. Ben Phillips is a possible because he has the proven bowling ability and has been a fair to middling taile end bat but he isn't Peter with the willow. Alfonso? He will be a definite part of the seam attack but could he take on the pressure of the higher batting expectations? Not that sure myself. David Stiff? Certainly gave us some real fun with the big hits in games, expecially that rollicking 45 off not a lot in the Yorkshire run chase but every game at number 6? Nah.
Young names like Haggett, Dibble, Hayter, Burke? Well if there is one looking to make a name for himself then Peter's call up would offer a golden opportunity.
It isn't a problem at the moment but we might be asked to make a short sharp change on little notice. Get the batting gloves on guys and put in that net time!!
As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Grockles.com (IP Logged)
Date: 25/02/2010 18:31
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010:03:07:14:33:19 by Grockle.
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010:03:07:14:33:19 by Grockle.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Kentish Townie (IP Logged)
Date: 25/02/2010 21:11
This season is going to be one of opportunities for younger players, whether Kieswetter or Trego are elevated or not.
Remember we have lost experienced batting cover in Edwards and Durston.
That means should any of the top six lose form, Buttler and Jones haver to come in.
Given the mixed performances of Hildreth and De Bruyn this is a possibility although the latter's bowling shouldn't be overlooked, especially in the absence of Trego.
On the bowling front, Willoughby, Kartik and probably Stiff are inked in with Trego as fifth bowler hopefully with more opportunities.
That just leaves no8. Phillips or Thomas really, neither of whom I can see taking 35 CC wickets.
I can't see Waller or Munday playing much, especially as the management clearly have concerns about their ability to stem the flow of runs at Taunton.
Of course without Kartik at the beginning of the season, there will be even more pressure on the bowlers and you fear opposition batsmen really will be licking their lips in anticipation of playing us at Taunton.
STRONGEST TEAM (all comps)
Trescothick (C)
Suppiah
Compton
Hildreth
De Bruyn
Trego
Kieswetter
Phillips
Stiff
Willoughby
Kartik.
Remember we have lost experienced batting cover in Edwards and Durston.
That means should any of the top six lose form, Buttler and Jones haver to come in.
Given the mixed performances of Hildreth and De Bruyn this is a possibility although the latter's bowling shouldn't be overlooked, especially in the absence of Trego.
On the bowling front, Willoughby, Kartik and probably Stiff are inked in with Trego as fifth bowler hopefully with more opportunities.
That just leaves no8. Phillips or Thomas really, neither of whom I can see taking 35 CC wickets.
I can't see Waller or Munday playing much, especially as the management clearly have concerns about their ability to stem the flow of runs at Taunton.
Of course without Kartik at the beginning of the season, there will be even more pressure on the bowlers and you fear opposition batsmen really will be licking their lips in anticipation of playing us at Taunton.
STRONGEST TEAM (all comps)
Trescothick (C)
Suppiah
Compton
Hildreth
De Bruyn
Trego
Kieswetter
Phillips
Stiff
Willoughby
Kartik.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 25/02/2010 22:08
Quote:That just leaves no8. Phillips or Thomas really, neither of whom I can see taking 35 CC wickets.
Despite the fact that Thomas did exactly that last year!? It beggars belief; really it does.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 25/02/2010 23:16
I blame the pitch FE. It probably affects recollection - it's to blame for everything else :-)
I assume the experienced cover comes from some other season because Neil and Wes only managed 1 innings and 54 runs in first class matches last season (though Wes's innings was not out).
I do struggle to see why Wes wasn't kept as a batsman (but the decision to stay is a two person thing). Neil of course chose to leave - so although lost to us it was his decision not to take the two year offer.
Buttler will play if Craig is kept elsewhere and Jones has taken a year off University for such a chance so why not use him?
I assume the experienced cover comes from some other season because Neil and Wes only managed 1 innings and 54 runs in first class matches last season (though Wes's innings was not out).
I do struggle to see why Wes wasn't kept as a batsman (but the decision to stay is a two person thing). Neil of course chose to leave - so although lost to us it was his decision not to take the two year offer.
Buttler will play if Craig is kept elsewhere and Jones has taken a year off University for such a chance so why not use him?
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 26/02/2010 00:04
Alfie was close to being player of the year for me last season,he was superb.
Shows how much I know.
Must be all that nonsense I've been spouting.
If Jos gets the gig we'll have to back him all the way,he'll need us behind him not having a dig at his every mistake.
Every career has to start somewhere.
Grab your chance young man.
Shows how much I know.
Must be all that nonsense I've been spouting.
If Jos gets the gig we'll have to back him all the way,he'll need us behind him not having a dig at his every mistake.
Every career has to start somewhere.
Grab your chance young man.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: samaithai2 (IP Logged)
Date: 26/02/2010 04:40
Alfie had a mixed season in SA. Don't think he played any longer version of the game. Released by his franchise Dolphins.
Saving it all up for Somerset.
Saving it all up for Somerset.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 26/02/2010 04:46
Seems to me that James Hildreth risks going the way of Mark Lathwell, unless he can get his act together.
For someone of his talent, that would be a tragic waste.
Focus James............FOCUS !!!
Grizzzly
For someone of his talent, that would be a tragic waste.
Focus James............FOCUS !!!
Grizzzly
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Bobstan (IP Logged)
Date: 26/02/2010 07:40
Grizzzly, that is the comparison you are not allowed to make.
Don't mention the War.
Don't mention the War.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 26/02/2010 09:57
KT... I think you'll find that, at least theoretically, there will only be one CC game at Taunton sans Kartik, so don't worry your pretty little head too much about that one.
Certainly, Mr Rose was on about three early season games up North and needing an overseas seamer for those games.
Samithai - Amazed that Alf would be released by the Dolphins - you'd think they'd keep him for one-day cricket, even if not needed for the longer stuff?
Grockle - Just because Wes and Neil did not play does not seem, to me, to invalidate the proposition that they were there "as experienced cover," last season. There simply weren't any injuries amongst the batsmen. We seem to me to have been very lucky on that score in recent years.
Certainly, Mr Rose was on about three early season games up North and needing an overseas seamer for those games.
Samithai - Amazed that Alf would be released by the Dolphins - you'd think they'd keep him for one-day cricket, even if not needed for the longer stuff?
Grockle - Just because Wes and Neil did not play does not seem, to me, to invalidate the proposition that they were there "as experienced cover," last season. There simply weren't any injuries amongst the batsmen. We seem to me to have been very lucky on that score in recent years.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 26/02/2010 10:24
Thomas, who has been one of the key factors in Somerset's successful run over the last two summers which saw them end third in the championship as well as runners up in the Twenty20 and the Pro40 in 2009, attended a reception at Buckingham Palace on Tuesday where he was presented to HM Queen Elizabeth.
"This has to go down as one of the greatest days of my life," the 33 year old former South African international said back at the County Ground.
The rest of the story is on the other site.
The link to my Photos on Photobucket - [s1152.photobucket.com]
"This has to go down as one of the greatest days of my life," the 33 year old former South African international said back at the County Ground.
The rest of the story is on the other site.
The link to my Photos on Photobucket - [s1152.photobucket.com]Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Keith's Sweater (IP Logged)
Date: 26/02/2010 10:32
Bit of a season of two halves for Thomas in proper cricket last summer. In 5 games before the end of June, he took 21 wickets at 27.76 but, in the 9 matches from then until the end of the season, he only managed 14 wickets at 52.43. I only saw him in that latter period (and only at Taunton) but, from that experience, I wouldn't necessarily say those figures are desperately unfair to him. He didn't really look like taking wickets with the red ball, to me.
Still, it's important to distinguish between what statisticians call periodic variation (which, in this case, would be natural periods of better or worse form and/or luck) and secular variation (an identifiable overall trend in one direction or another). I, for one, would want to see a poor patch of longer than 9 games before I conclude he's actually losing it.
And he was, of course, truly excellent in all forms of white-ball cricket throughout.
Still, it's important to distinguish between what statisticians call periodic variation (which, in this case, would be natural periods of better or worse form and/or luck) and secular variation (an identifiable overall trend in one direction or another). I, for one, would want to see a poor patch of longer than 9 games before I conclude he's actually losing it.
And he was, of course, truly excellent in all forms of white-ball cricket throughout.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 26/02/2010 10:54
Just to add a little context to Alfie's Dolphins release: he's one of five players over 30 (alongside Andrew Hall, Hylton Ackerman, Johann Louw and Piere de Bruyn) olny one of whom (Louw) is "local" to the Dolphins' "catchment area", as it were.
It's part of a stated policy of focussing resources on developing young, local players, so it may not be entirely a reflection on what Alfie still has to offer.
It's part of a stated policy of focussing resources on developing young, local players, so it may not be entirely a reflection on what Alfie still has to offer.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 26/02/2010 11:51
Right, thanks, FE. In that context, the decision appears less foolish than it might have appeared on the surface i.e. I could not believe they could possibly have four or so pacemen that are better in one-day cricket than Alf is.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: cricketjerry-mouse (IP Logged)
Date: 26/02/2010 17:27
One interesting sidelight to emerge from the fascinating interview with Alfonso, on his huge pride at being invited to the Palace to meet the Queen, was his revelation that he is moving his family permanently to Somerset and buying a house here.
What can the Duke of E. have meant, though, when he saw Alf`s Somerset CCC imprint on his name badge? "You must be a bowler then." You would have thought Prince Philip would know we only had batters at Taunton.
What can the Duke of E. have meant, though, when he saw Alf`s Somerset CCC imprint on his name badge? "You must be a bowler then." You would have thought Prince Philip would know we only had batters at Taunton.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 26/02/2010 17:46
Sadly, Phillip's track record suggests all too clearly why he might have taken one look at Alfie and decided he must be a bowler! 
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: SheptonPaul (IP Logged)
Date: 26/02/2010 18:10
Understood, FE!
"Sidelight", cjm? Are you sure?
"Sidelight", cjm? Are you sure?
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Kentish Townie (IP Logged)
Date: 26/02/2010 22:35
Keith makes the point I was about to on Thomas' form at the end of last season which was disappointing.
He or Phillips is going to have to better that to keep us on an even keel next season.
I think there's a real chance we could go into those pre Kartik games without a recognised spinner with a five man seam attack.
Yet even that assumes no injuries. Then it really is up to the Haggetts of this world to come through.
Can't say I feel confident.
He or Phillips is going to have to better that to keep us on an even keel next season.
I think there's a real chance we could go into those pre Kartik games without a recognised spinner with a five man seam attack.
Yet even that assumes no injuries. Then it really is up to the Haggetts of this world to come through.
Can't say I feel confident.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 26/02/2010 22:53
We have a recognised spinner who was one of two in mot game last year..his name is Arul Suppiah. They can also call on another spinner called Max Waller. Khartik is an addition to our resources of last year but those resources still exist. So no need for a five man seam attack - not with Zander and Peter available as well as three front liners
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 26/02/2010 22:55
Are you really brazen enough to pretend that you knew full well, when you made your dismissive remark about Alfonso, that he had reached your benchmark of 35 CC wickets last year, but had disregarded it because too many of them came early in the season?
Do you really expect us to believe that your assertion that you "couldn't see him taking 35", actually meant couldn't see him doing it AGAIN!
If so, I can only admire your chutzpah!
Aside from that, I dare say he isn't the only seamer who took a higher proportion of his wickets in the first half of the season. I'd also volunteer that the fact that he'd shouldered a heavier-than-expected workload throughout the season should be more than enough to explain, and forgive, some fatigue and tail-off in the latter half.
You also persist in referring to pre-Kartik games, when we are led to believe there will be only one such game in the CC.
I say again, as I've said before, you'd get a lot more mileage for your theories if you didn't so blatantly disregard any facts (and yes, some of them are FACTS) which don't suit your argument.
You would do yourself (and your argument) much greater service if, when presented with the Alfonso figures, for instance, you simply said "Really: then I did the man a disservice", rather than trying to post-rationalise your error.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:02:26:23:01:40 by Frome Exile.
Do you really expect us to believe that your assertion that you "couldn't see him taking 35", actually meant couldn't see him doing it AGAIN!
If so, I can only admire your chutzpah!
Aside from that, I dare say he isn't the only seamer who took a higher proportion of his wickets in the first half of the season. I'd also volunteer that the fact that he'd shouldered a heavier-than-expected workload throughout the season should be more than enough to explain, and forgive, some fatigue and tail-off in the latter half.
You also persist in referring to pre-Kartik games, when we are led to believe there will be only one such game in the CC.
I say again, as I've said before, you'd get a lot more mileage for your theories if you didn't so blatantly disregard any facts (and yes, some of them are FACTS) which don't suit your argument.
You would do yourself (and your argument) much greater service if, when presented with the Alfonso figures, for instance, you simply said "Really: then I did the man a disservice", rather than trying to post-rationalise your error.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:02:26:23:01:40 by Frome Exile.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 27/02/2010 08:59
Here endeth the First Lesson.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: nblakey (IP Logged)
Date: 27/02/2010 10:28
Nick Knight made a comment on a televised game about Thomas leaving Warwickshire.Knight said that Thomas never bowled well for Warwickshire.How brave of Thomas to sign for Somerset,the bowlers graveyard !!!
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Kentish Townie (IP Logged)
Date: 27/02/2010 11:46
Frome, you are full of faux outrage it's impossible to take seriously.
My point is that I don't believe that Thomas, based on his recent form can be effective enough as a frontline seamer in the CC.
He did indeed start the season well, but the figures quoted underline my point about his recent, worrying form.
You may have full confidence in our seam attack next season. I, based on the facts available, do not.
My point is that I don't believe that Thomas, based on his recent form can be effective enough as a frontline seamer in the CC.
He did indeed start the season well, but the figures quoted underline my point about his recent, worrying form.
You may have full confidence in our seam attack next season. I, based on the facts available, do not.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: nblakey (IP Logged)
Date: 27/02/2010 12:01
And of course Thomas will be another year older.What age will he be next season? What is the average age of the seam attack?
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 27/02/2010 14:00
It depends on who is in it Blakey.
If Stiff, Turner, Dibble, Haggett and Hayman figure then it drops but if not it's over 30 I think.
Nothing about Alfonso Thomas' perfromances for Somerset suggest he is waning in ability in any way KT. He isn't our first choice in the Championship so how you think he is going to be this really significant aspect of that format puzzles me.
Surely the form of Charl Willoughby and Ben Phillips is much more important along with the development of Stiff, Turner and the younger men over the winter.
That and the contribution of de Bruyn, Trego, Waller and Suppiah during the one game when your supposed saviour of our season, our very own Murali, is unavailable. I'm sure if they don't perform our Championship season will be over before it has begun!!!
Then again it's not worth talking about is it?
Surely it makes no difference who bowls because we will lose or draw at home and fail to do anything significant because of the appalling nature of our wicket while other sides all play on these results pitches that ours quite obviously isn't.
If Stiff, Turner, Dibble, Haggett and Hayman figure then it drops but if not it's over 30 I think.
Nothing about Alfonso Thomas' perfromances for Somerset suggest he is waning in ability in any way KT. He isn't our first choice in the Championship so how you think he is going to be this really significant aspect of that format puzzles me.
Surely the form of Charl Willoughby and Ben Phillips is much more important along with the development of Stiff, Turner and the younger men over the winter.
That and the contribution of de Bruyn, Trego, Waller and Suppiah during the one game when your supposed saviour of our season, our very own Murali, is unavailable. I'm sure if they don't perform our Championship season will be over before it has begun!!!
Then again it's not worth talking about is it?
Surely it makes no difference who bowls because we will lose or draw at home and fail to do anything significant because of the appalling nature of our wicket while other sides all play on these results pitches that ours quite obviously isn't.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 27/02/2010 14:09
There is nothing faux about my distaste for people who appear to have nothing good to say about anyone, and who would rather wriggle and squirm for all their worth rarther than admit they might just have been the least bit wrong.
Your point wasn't that Thomas is unlikely to take 35 wickets this season. Your point was that he isn't a 35-wicket-a-season bowler. Only when your error was pointed out did you subtly shift your position. It's so transparent it's laughable.
It's much like your assertion the Stiff isn't a 50-wickets-a-season bowler, which also subtly shifted once it was pointed out to you that his pro-rata return was far better than that!
Your point wasn't that Thomas is unlikely to take 35 wickets this season. Your point was that he isn't a 35-wicket-a-season bowler. Only when your error was pointed out did you subtly shift your position. It's so transparent it's laughable.
It's much like your assertion the Stiff isn't a 50-wickets-a-season bowler, which also subtly shifted once it was pointed out to you that his pro-rata return was far better than that!
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 27/02/2010 14:31
I remember what he said about Pete when he returned.
I also recall how,when he heard that Phil had read the thread dedicated to him he suddenly told the world how much he appreciated the work Phil had done.
There is a word for what he does,but I'd better not use it here.
I also recall how,when he heard that Phil had read the thread dedicated to him he suddenly told the world how much he appreciated the work Phil had done.
There is a word for what he does,but I'd better not use it here.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 27/02/2010 15:24
Don't worry Jim I have spoken with Phil today KT's name was mentioned in the conversation.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 27/02/2010 15:25
Careful Jim: keep that otrage in check!
We'll be accused of faux expectations of common decency and courtesy next!
We'll be accused of faux expectations of common decency and courtesy next!
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 27/02/2010 15:40
Good news,Mike.
I hope Phil and his family are well.
And FE.
Your faux fauxness is unlike any fauxness I've seen since visiting Folkstone.
Keep your faux under control.
I hope Phil and his family are well.
And FE.
Your faux fauxness is unlike any fauxness I've seen since visiting Folkstone.
Keep your faux under control.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Frome Exile (IP Logged)
Date: 27/02/2010 15:46
I'm otraged!
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 27/02/2010 15:47
It's faux outrage and I can't take it seriously.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 27/02/2010 16:28
Jim.
He’s doing ok considering the circumstances; we ended up talking about computers, Phil knows very little and I was explaining about IP addresses, Private messages, he knows about e/mails.
He’s doing ok considering the circumstances; we ended up talking about computers, Phil knows very little and I was explaining about IP addresses, Private messages, he knows about e/mails.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa. (IP Logged)
Date: 27/02/2010 19:44
He's not called Faux Exile for nothing.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 27/02/2010 19:57
Is faux off limits now?
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Wickham (IP Logged)
Date: 28/02/2010 09:04
Just received a fax which says that some of you folks are faux foes.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Bobstan (IP Logged)
Date: 28/02/2010 09:13
I hope Bobo's not a faux foe.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Angell Face (IP Logged)
Date: 28/02/2010 12:04
Reading this thread two thoughts came to mind. I think Hildreth is more likely to do a Slocombe than a Lathwell, i.e. technical faults creeping in may be his problem, though I admit I only see him bat 4 or 5 times a season. And I wonder how Kieswetter would develop if someone else kept wicket and he played as a specialist batsman. Again, it's on the basis of limited evidence but I think he could become a top class international batsman.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 28/02/2010 12:27
That is obviously the thoughts in the England camp - good training for him as well.
I suppose what the international side needs is a top 5 batsman who also keeps like a specialist and while they've got a keeper in form (Prior), why not have a look at a man who might be a one day specilaist opener but may also be a little more than that. Be something if CK becomes what Bell really still isn't wouldn't it?
I suppose what the international side needs is a top 5 batsman who also keeps like a specialist and while they've got a keeper in form (Prior), why not have a look at a man who might be a one day specilaist opener but may also be a little more than that. Be something if CK becomes what Bell really still isn't wouldn't it?
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/03/2010 12:21
"You also persist in referring to pre-Kartik games, when we are led to believe there will be only one such game in the CC."
Pre-Kartik games is, I believe, correct unless things have changed that I am not aware of. "Pre-Kartik games at Taunton," is, in the context of the CC, incorrect (with the same proviso as in the first sentence.)
I'm pretty sure we were told Kartik would miss the first four CC games, three of which would be "in the North," which was why Brian Rose was meant to be looking for an overseas seamer. In Craig's probable absence, I'd suggest we drop that idea as no quality overseas seamer is liable to be available and sign the kind of solid overseas batsman that would be useful in seaming conditions but is, perhaps, far too "solid," to get into his country's T20 team.
Hasn't R T Ponting retired from all T20 cricket?
I seem to remember the locals at Scarborough having been entirely wowed with his previous CC performance in an SCCC shirt there....
Pre-Kartik games is, I believe, correct unless things have changed that I am not aware of. "Pre-Kartik games at Taunton," is, in the context of the CC, incorrect (with the same proviso as in the first sentence.)
I'm pretty sure we were told Kartik would miss the first four CC games, three of which would be "in the North," which was why Brian Rose was meant to be looking for an overseas seamer. In Craig's probable absence, I'd suggest we drop that idea as no quality overseas seamer is liable to be available and sign the kind of solid overseas batsman that would be useful in seaming conditions but is, perhaps, far too "solid," to get into his country's T20 team.
Hasn't R T Ponting retired from all T20 cricket?
I seem to remember the locals at Scarborough having been entirely wowed with his previous CC performance in an SCCC shirt there....
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/03/2010 12:28
"It's much like your assertion the Stiff isn't a 50-wickets-a-season bowler, which also subtly shifted once it was pointed out to you that his pro-rata return was far better than that!"
To be fair, unlike the Thomas 35-wicket thing, I don't see any real logical inconsistency in the above.
Stiff may have had a good "pro-rata," return of wickets per game. However, despite Stiff not (to my knowledge) having suffered an injury, Brian Rose/Justin Langer certainly did not pick him at every available opportunity in the CC. And this is despite the fact that we were not exactly slicing through opposing batting line-ups like a knife through butter.
I think Stiff enjoyed quite a bit of luck last season. The man himself was candid enough to say as much on the official website (if I remember rightly.) Whatever the stats might say about his pro-rata return, I think he will need to bowl a good deal better than he did last season if he is take 50 wickets in 2010.
Of course, outside of Charl Willoughby, I shall be quite pleasantly surprised if any of our bowlers achieve 50 CC wickets in 2010.
To be fair, unlike the Thomas 35-wicket thing, I don't see any real logical inconsistency in the above.
Stiff may have had a good "pro-rata," return of wickets per game. However, despite Stiff not (to my knowledge) having suffered an injury, Brian Rose/Justin Langer certainly did not pick him at every available opportunity in the CC. And this is despite the fact that we were not exactly slicing through opposing batting line-ups like a knife through butter.
I think Stiff enjoyed quite a bit of luck last season. The man himself was candid enough to say as much on the official website (if I remember rightly.) Whatever the stats might say about his pro-rata return, I think he will need to bowl a good deal better than he did last season if he is take 50 wickets in 2010.
Of course, outside of Charl Willoughby, I shall be quite pleasantly surprised if any of our bowlers achieve 50 CC wickets in 2010.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 01/03/2010 12:31
Including Khartik AG?
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/03/2010 12:37
Well, I think he's only got 12 games, Grockle? Assuming that he's still missing the first four?
Throw in a bit of rain along the way, and I think he might struggle to take that many? Missed a few games with injury with Middx as well, I believe, possibly more than one would expect with a slow bowler.
If he plays 12 games and averages four wickets a game, he'd finish just shy of 50 (48). That would be the equivalent of 64 wickets in a full 16 game season and I would not expect any more than 64 wickets from Kartik in a full 16 game season.
I have to say, though, that I think Kartik should be able to help the bowling unit as a whole become more effective even if he does not take 50 wickets in the season. He should provide us with the same kind of control that IDB did and this should mean a lighter workload for Charl (who had to provide both control and penetration last season) and hopefully for Alf Thomas, too. I also look forward to seeing him bowl, in tandem, with young Max Waller who will hopefully benefit from Kartik keeping the batsmen quiet.
Throw in a bit of rain along the way, and I think he might struggle to take that many? Missed a few games with injury with Middx as well, I believe, possibly more than one would expect with a slow bowler.
If he plays 12 games and averages four wickets a game, he'd finish just shy of 50 (48). That would be the equivalent of 64 wickets in a full 16 game season and I would not expect any more than 64 wickets from Kartik in a full 16 game season.
I have to say, though, that I think Kartik should be able to help the bowling unit as a whole become more effective even if he does not take 50 wickets in the season. He should provide us with the same kind of control that IDB did and this should mean a lighter workload for Charl (who had to provide both control and penetration last season) and hopefully for Alf Thomas, too. I also look forward to seeing him bowl, in tandem, with young Max Waller who will hopefully benefit from Kartik keeping the batsmen quiet.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Palairet (IP Logged)
Date: 01/03/2010 16:42
I consider that the posting made yesterday by Angell Face, in which he declared his thoughts on both Hildreth and Kieswetter, was extremely profound.
I absolutely agree with him that James Hildreth “is more likely to do a Slocombe than a Lathwell.”
Philip Slocombe (like James) was a very good batsman – correct, neat and stylish. He was a player of immense promise and talent who, shortly after making his debut for Somerset, was being talked about as a future Test player.
But then, I seem to recall, his confidence had evaporated to such an extent that he became increasingly bogged down by theories. The result was that his stance at the crease had become markedly sideways on. The early promise had gone, and his great talent was never fulfilled.
Higher recognition of course never came and, born out of frustration, he was lost to the first class game before his rightful time!
I wondered at the time (nearly 30 years ago) whether or not he had been given enough help and encouragement by those then in situ at Somerset.
I hope that the same fate does not befall James Hildreth. The coaches at Somerset should identify any technical flaws in his batting, Angell Face, and work with him to eradicate them.
But time marches on. It is now seven years since his initial appearance for Somerset’s first team.
I am becoming increasingly impatient and nowhere near as confident about him as I once was!
I absolutely agree with him that James Hildreth “is more likely to do a Slocombe than a Lathwell.”
Philip Slocombe (like James) was a very good batsman – correct, neat and stylish. He was a player of immense promise and talent who, shortly after making his debut for Somerset, was being talked about as a future Test player.
But then, I seem to recall, his confidence had evaporated to such an extent that he became increasingly bogged down by theories. The result was that his stance at the crease had become markedly sideways on. The early promise had gone, and his great talent was never fulfilled.
Higher recognition of course never came and, born out of frustration, he was lost to the first class game before his rightful time!
I wondered at the time (nearly 30 years ago) whether or not he had been given enough help and encouragement by those then in situ at Somerset.
I hope that the same fate does not befall James Hildreth. The coaches at Somerset should identify any technical flaws in his batting, Angell Face, and work with him to eradicate them.
But time marches on. It is now seven years since his initial appearance for Somerset’s first team.
I am becoming increasingly impatient and nowhere near as confident about him as I once was!
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 01/03/2010 16:46
I think his main issue is getting over the top of the ball when playing against back of a length stuff outside off. Too often, the ball seems to be caught by gully or by point.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa. (IP Logged)
Date: 01/03/2010 16:52
While not disagreeing greatly with Angell Face or Palairet, I feel that Hildreth has always displayed greater flair - call it class, if you like - than Slocombe, who was initially elegant but never especially exciting. I share their disappointment that his batting went backwards after such a promising start, especially as he was a true man of Somerset.
Re: As one door closes another opens
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 01/03/2010 16:58
Feet.
Moving them into line.
Do that.
All will be fine.
Moving them into line.
Do that.
All will be fine.
This Thread has been closed