How Long Oh Lord? How Long?
Will he? Won't he?
By Grockle
September 17 2011
The second time to Lord's in two seasons for a 40 over final. The fifth short format Final in 3 years and we have yet to come away with silverware. Will this be the day? Craig Kieswetter and Jos Buttler have made the trip across from Wales after the England game and the skipper will have travelled with the side...BUT will he take the field? His ankle injury is not healed but a decision will have been made as to whether it will support him for 80 overs of the last game for him of the season. If it does he will lead the batting, if it doesn't we lose a major weapon in an arsenal that has been battered by absenteeism and injury since the beginning of the month. It put paid to our CC1 hopes...what about the only trophy still available?
v Surrey CB40 Final @ Lord's Saturday 17 September 2011
Marcus Trescothick does lead his team out in the last fixture for him of 2011. His side consists of;
Trescothick, Kieswetter, Trego, Compton, Hildreth, Buttler, Suppiah, Meschede, Kartik, Thomas and Kirby
The surprise in that line up must be Craig Meschede who was not expected ahead of George Dockrell or Lewis Gregory. One has to assume that the pitch is not for spinners and that Lewis is not fit enough to turn out. The skipper won the toss and decided to post a score. Against Aarafat and Spreigel the two openers started to get down to work but things did not go entirely to plan as with a mere 24 on the board near the end of the 5th over the Boss's gamble seems to have come to an end as he was stumped by Davies off the bowling of Spreigel. Once more Somerset would have to do it without the man with the big bat.
It got a little hairier for the batting line-up when Kieswetter was caught behind with his score only in the teens during the 8th over and the newly returned Nick Compton strode out to join his partner Peter Trego. at 36 for 2. These two were then tasked with setting the store out for later run accumulation but 15 or 16 sems to be a popular score today because no sooner had Trigger passed 50 than he became Dernbach's first victim at 56 for 16. Somerset reach 50 in the first 10 but have their front end blown away in the process....it's going to be a long afternoon as Compo and Hildreth look to limit the early damage before they try and get the innings back on a track to a defendable and hopefully victorious total.
But from the off it seems that Surrey had th3e right tactics and Somerset are playing catch up. Hamilton Browne has gone in with 5 spinners (we have two). Instead of playing the attacking game we hoped for, the openers allowed the spinners to take hold and then the momentum is with the bowling side. And so it continues as first Hildreth is bowled by Schofield at 66 with only 3 to his name and then the nightmare continues as Suppiah is found LBW to Batty in front at 79. No-one has got into the twenties yet, Jos, our last real hope is at the crease and we aren't even halfway through the game yet!! 150 looks out of reach at the moment.
Nick and Jos nurse the score past 100 in the 20th with both men looking to push the score along but with an eye on the long way ahead and the little strength remaining in the hutch. That is why the reverse sweep idiocy played by Compton in the 24th beggars belief!! Ansari bowls him around his legs as he plays a gambling shot to a ball on middle and is skittled for 26 off 41 to leave his partner high and dry with the tail at 124 for 6. If you are going to work to get 26 off 41, you've basically said "I'll anchor the innings, you do the big scoring" and then you play a shot like that. It is why Nick is still not the certainty we all want him to be.
SO...in comes Craig Meschede and the Surrey lot see Jos as their big obstacle to a massacre. The skipper brings Dernbach on to remove the Somerset man and his first ball suggests a snick that just doesn't fall into Davies' gloves. Not sure myself but it doesn't carry so no problem. Craig knows his job is to get his partner on strike and he helps him move the score along until he gets a leading edge and puts the ball straight back to the bowler (Batty) with only 10 to his name and he is on his way before we reach 150. 147 for 7.
Alf is no slouch but walking out in this position can be no fun. 13 overs to go and nothing on the board to defend! He helps take the total past 150 and then to 165 where the wonderful Buttler passes a 48 ball 50 with a sumptuous boundary one side of fine leg followed immediately by another one the other side of fine leg. Something for the patient West country faithful to cheer for a change! With 5 to go there is a flicker of hope at 177 for 7 but Dernbach snuffs some of that out when after only going for one off the first four balls of the over he has Thomas caught behind off the 5th.
Kartik enters and gets a single off his first so we have 180 with 4 to go and Somerset take the batting powerplay (because they have no option)! Arafat takes the 36th, JB misses the first but puts the second to the boundary, misses the third but the fourth is a leg bye boundary. The young man takes a single to allow his spinning partner to take a boundary off the last ball and the Somerset crowd start to loosen their vocal chords.
Buttler faces Dernbach and sixes ball 1 bringing the 200 up with the first six of the game but with 13 balls to go MK is bowled by the England man's 88 mph 'swinger' and we watch the Mighty Blocker that is Steve Kirby stomp out to bat. He first gets a bouncer which he swings out of the way of and then stares balefully at the younger bowler (that one is in the book). Then he nearly plays the next one on before providing a perfect forward defensive to put his big hitter on strike for the 38th.
Arafat delivers ball one. Jos smites it to the boundary for four. Arafat delivers ball two. Jos does even better and puts this one over the boundary for six! Ball 3 he leaves and takes a single off ball 4 to bring up 400 runs for himself in one day cricket (batting at number 6!!) and 211 for 9 for his county. Kirby faces ball 5. It's a wide and it brings another huge cheer. He then blocks out ball 6 as if he has all day.
The last over. Jos on 84 vital runs has kept us in this game for a while at least. Can he top it off by making Surrey wonder by adding double figures in these 6 balls? Dernbach fires in the first and Buttler nearly gets it past Ansari for four but it is cut off and he only gets 2. He'll not run odd number possibilities. Ball number 2 and it is all over as he steps away and is bowled for 86 leaving his side on 214. It isn't enough but it is a total down to only one man really and if nothing comes from this game we have one awesome player who did not let us down!!
Pitiful total. Once more Somerset come to a Final and vastly underperform.
The Reply
Hamilton Browne and Davies arrive to start the Surrey reply and they face Alf taking the first and Steve taking the second. Nothing much happens until the fourth when Davies says bye bye and trudges back courtesy of Kirby and the hands of Kartik in the slips. 19 for 1. An early wicket down but Surrey are up with the rate and the wickets have to keep tumbling if Somerset are to maintain their fingertips on the handle of the trophy. One big partnership and this is over for another year.
26 for 1 at 5 is enough for victory. The rain starts to come down and this seems to break Roy's concentration and Kirby strikes again as the Surrey batsman has a swipe and is caught behind for 11 out of 35. One ball left of the 6th and we are off for rain. 35 for 2.... 20 overs is a game!
A long layoff and a reduced target does not exactly help us much. When they do finally get back on fully it is a 30 over game with a 186 run target. Maynard and Hamiton Browne are the partnership and they get moving ominously but are checked by Suppiah getting Maynard caught behind at 77 but the target is small and the Surrey captain is controlling the game from the crease. They pass 100 just after he reaches a good 50 and Marcus starts to run out of bowlers. Why didn't he play Dockrell is the question I think is on many lips because we need tight control and we have to look to Pete Trego and Craig Meschede to do it. Schofield has been brought in because he is a batsman who looks to push the spinners around but at the end of the 17th over Surrey are 102 for 3 needing 84 to win off 78 balls. Arul is bowling well but Schofield is looking for runs off him. They are moving the total along too quickly and we need a wicket. The skipper may have to bring his attack bowlers back to try and break the Surrey middle or this game is gone.
He tries but it is too late and although Thomas gives us hope when he gets Schofield caught by the skipper at 135 and that man Jos Buttler gets the Surrey boss out of his crease with a superb pick up and throw (one of many run out chances Surrey gave but the only one that was completed by a Somerset fielder) at 147, it isn't going to be and Spreigle and Zander get the Brownhats home with 5 wickets in hand and 15 balls to go.
Another Final another runners up medal. Another big game another small batting performance (so much worse had Buttler not made it respectable) some more pressure another capitulation. There will be post mortems and there will be suggestions about changes and new policies to combat it but we've been here before and the AGM will be full of explanations abut why and how it will be different in 2012....will it? I guess we'll have to hope so and wait and see. The official Facebook page has the title 'Gutted'. Weren't they 'Gutted' last year? Do they have any guts left to be removed? I think it's more a case of 'Unsurprising' nowadays.... not happy but what's new?
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:23:17:03:07 by Grockle.
[tickets.lords.org]
Grizzzly
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:16:13:25:35 by Grockle.
Two adult tickets for £60, or four for £100
Some people blamed him in his absence at Lords for the decline from 176-3 to 199 all out.
Bus arrangements will be known by lunchtime Tuesday apparently.
Might try and forget all about the result and watch the highlights.....
He's got to be capable of fully contributing or he has to stand aside.

I'll still be surprised to see Tres play on Saturday, I'm afraid.
As good as he is i'm not sure we can afford him to retire early in his innings again putting us 0-1 potentially.
Also what are the rules in the field, if we batted first and irst and he got injured would Surrey be in their rights to make us field with 10? If the roles were reversed i would not be happy them having a sub fielder given the injury was known coming into the game.
Kim Barnett (40+) was bad enough in 99 final v Glos batting then getting a sub fielder for our innings
I watched Marcus trying his ankle out and it didn’t look good, after running a full length of a pitch he ended up holding his ankle and he was limping quite badly.
To me it looks very doubtful that he will play Saturday.
We can live in hope.
It looked a bad injury at the time and time was not on our side. However, there is still five days and miracles can still happen.
If there is any doubt (which it sounds there is) then i really dont see any sense in risking it.
Huge risk that it could go again whilst batting, and surely he will be a liability in the field, and if we field first would mean our chase starts 0-1 if it went again.
We did it without him in the semi and no reason we cant again, Kieswetter back, and maybe Compo too, plenty of other match winners too
Surrey would indeed be well within their rights to make us field with 10 - and deny Marcus a runner if the injury plays up again.
A team of Kieswetter, Suppiah, Trego, Compo, Hildreth Buttler, Meschede. Kartik, Thomas, dockrell/Waller and Kirby would do for me. Quite a good balance to it I think although better if Marcus was there.
Would like to think Max had a chance but quite sure George will be preferred.
This will give us 3 spin options and 4 seam options.
We have to trust the top 6 to score the runs, with contributions from Craig, Alfie and Kartik if required
Hildy should be in fine fettle now and hopefully Trego will on Saturday too...he must be due, surely!!!
Lewis may get in if fully fit but don't see he'll get in as a batter only.
All others i think are on the fringe, Barrow, Jones, Dibble, Hussain, Max.
Quite sure it will be as you quoted, but maybe with Compo at 3.
We do seem flexible though as Meschede has come higher on occasions, and even Kartik.
With that XI though there is more than enough match winners to do it on the day.
In a forty over game you just need 3 or 4 players to really stand up.
If we get 2 big scores, 60+, with other contributions, and say Kartik/Thomas can take 3 wickets with support from others that will be enough.
All about who tuns up on the day ...
Totally think WSM has it spot on. Its about 2/3 players coming good and making a difference on the day. Hoefully its our big players.

I'm loath to call GD wrong (as I like him on so many other matters) but I'm surprised he seems to think Tres migt play. GD also repeats the common feeling (possibly mainly outside our county boundaries) that too many of James' runs have come on the featherbeds at Taunton.
Quote:SheptonPaul
From BBC twitter: "Somerset chairman of cricket Vic Marks confirms that Marcus Trescothick was in the nets today but "odds against" him playing CB40 final."
I was about to post the Marcus was in the nets this morning then I read your post Paul.
Vic is the one that would know.
I'm not going-only because travel from here makes an extremely long day and I have to be back for Sunday morning.
We are definite 2nd favourites, as we were against Durham and I am not expecting a win, but I am hoping like mad, I am supporting like mad and on the day anything can happen, Surrey have a decent team but their wheels have fallen off before now.
Love to see;
Tres,CK,Tregs,Hildy,NC,Jos,Gregory,Alf,Murali,George,and Kirbs.Would Arul miss out if Tres fit? or would he be ahead of Gregory?
OOPs! Forgot Craig Meschede as well!! Could be an interesting selection.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:15:07:46:39 by nelliec.
I feel Surrey would be within their rights not to allow us a substitute fielder if he exacerbates his existing injury during the match - we would expect Somerset to behave similarly.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
I believe we are much the better side player for player but I think I remember saying that in every other final we have played in recently.
We are not favourites which is a change from the last few finals we have been involved in so that may help take the pressure off but the players looked so down and out during that last hour at Taunton today that they will need a lift at Lords and hopefully just being at that special place will do it. I intend singing and shouting myself hoarse and will get behind the lads.I have now got to the point when I don`t expect anything from a trip to a final watching Somerset (apart from a hangover the following day.....) so maybe that is the best way to be,pleasantly surprised ???
This is now a vital match, maybe for the future of the club from a playing perspective as a victory would give the players some confidence to sail into next season with wind in the sails gathering momentum or defeat could mean us drifting on the tide with momentum of the past few seasons ebbing away with mental scars from our battles lost to boot.......
Fingers and everything else crossed and I know we are good enough
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:16:12:39:22 by Grockle.
Anything to get us a trophy.
The full Surrey squad to face Somerset in the CB40 Final at Lord’s on Saturday 17th September is:
Rory Hamilton-Brown (Captain)
Steven Davies (Wicket Keeper)
Jason Roy
Tom Maynard
Zander de Bruyn
Matthew Spriegel
Zafar Ansari
Chris Schofield
Gareth Batty
Yasir Arafat
Jade Dernbach
Tim Linley
Stuart Meaker
Gary Wilson
So no KP...
Happily, Lord's is not usually slow, either.
Our two very unconvincing performances in recent one-day finals both came on a slow track at Edgbaston. We were much better at the Rose Bowl and Lord's, last time out, so I believe that we will give a good account of ourselves, win or lose.
If I were Surrey, I would not have selected KP either. Let's face it, he is really a Surrey player in name only.
I do miss the days of banner 55 and 60 over finals.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
The league system kept interest alive, particularly as 3 up 3 down meant that if you weren't in contention for the title you were in the relegation scrap. Maybe keep the Unicorns, Netherlands, Scotland etc and make it 3 Divisions.
If we are to have semis and finals, lets go back to the excitement of straight knock out and get it earlier in the year. Late September is too late for a showpiece.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
This coupled with the rubbish weather we have recently endured, the excellent tv coverage and the football and rugby seasons in full swing, further reduce the popularity.
Lord's at 10 o'clock in the morning on a finals day just has a level of anticipation it is hard to describe unless you experience it.

By Marcus's own admission he is at least 3 weeks from being properly match-fit. I fear this is a mistake and I had hoped that Brian Rose would be stronger in this matter. Marcus's keenness to play and willingness to put himself through the pain barrier is not a surprise, but I'd say it should be Brian's job to prevent Marcus from taking any kind of risk with his long-term future.
Don't forget he expected to play with this until the end of the season anyway and take the longer lay off over the winter because of it.
He is simply costing his presence tomorrow against the time it will take to heal properly in the next six months. The question for tomorrow will be can he contribute effectively for 80 overs. If not he should not play.

Edit - spelling
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:16:18:27:21 by Mike TA1.
Compton hasn't played for a similar period..
Kieswetter will drive down to London from Cardiff in the early hours of tomorrow to play his first match for us in a month..
Buttler faces a similar journey though admittedly he hasn't played today...
Surrey on the other hand have a short journey to Lords having had an extra day off to prepare...buoyed by promotion
we've lost 4 finals in a row
A very talented ex player who refused to represent us in the final last year will be playing against us..a story just waiting to be happen (lets hope not)
Hmmmm..am I totally mad in still thinking we are going to win tomorrow
COME ON SOMERSETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
(reason for edit..I wrote 5 losing finals..hope I didn't tempt fate!)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:16:18:11:55 by Naxxar.
Unfortunately I am at Newmarket races on a stag do, so will have to keep up to date with events by phone.
Get their openers out early and we will win - we have the better players, so lets have no regrets this time tomorrow.
Oh he's out, start the car.
If we can overcome all those obstacles, it will be all the sweeter, Lets hope so
I am sure, like all of you, if you would have offered me 2 finals days again this season and in contention for the CC with 3 games to go I would have taken it. It surely goes to show how mentally strong the boys have been again this season, not only after last season but the season before also.
So it’s time to be mentally strong one more time boys and get over that winning line.
Come on Somerset
Wurz
It's 8.19am actually but I'm always told a different time cus I'm always late!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:16:21:01:04 by nelliec.
Bring the Trophy home & be proud doing it !
Grizzzly

Whilst they are not the best team in the land by a wide margin I hope they do well and at least give Surrey a run for their money.
I hope it's sunny for those who are able to attend this game and you have a nice team.
It's the taking part that matters not the winning you know.
Tresco
Kieswetter
Trego
Compton
Hildreth
Buttler
Suppiah
Thomas
Kartik
Kirby
Dockrell
Maybe Lewis in for Supps or Dockrell?
C'mon lads!
all that effort to get fit! 15 off 17 and gets stumped.
Come on Somerset.
Why is Craig Meschede being picked, he may be one for the future but at this moment I can’t see it, prove me wrong when you bowl.
Just seen next years draw. Don't fancy that group at all.
Up and at em lads
Senior batters don't seem to have been able to take enough pressure of them consistently enough and they have been exposed too much to having to get runs under pressure.
If we don't play them though, how will they get the experience ?
Don't get me wrong, there have been encouraging performances which give hope for the future, but non of them looks quite there as a first eleven regular.
That's all for next year. All that matters now is to put pressure on Surrey and hope they crack!
So I thought we had decided it was not a spinners pitch and as Lewis was not available the obvious choice was CM. But he hasn't shown the promise I personally hoped for with the bat so as you say we have to hope he shows it with the ball. Along with Pete who has underperformed today so we need something from him
And thanks for the stubborn bloody mindedness of Stephen Kirby. He loves a scrap doesn't he.
Excellent work by Dernbach at the end though. fightinh with Alf as the top one day death bowler.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:17:15:02:20 by Grockle.

Great stuff from Jos but I doubt if it will be enough, especially now that they will get a shortened chase.
I'm assuming that there is no way this incomplete match could be declared void ? I'm assuming not!
Would we care if we won on a bowl out ?
GM - the many spinners may often be Surrey's plan, but then their home games are played on a turning track.
As for us, we have played all of Dockrell, Kartik and Suppiah, at times.
Might reduce Murali's effectiveness.
Dropped Hamilton Browne on 0?
It isn't gonna happen guys. Too big a mountain to climb once again.
Though Jos has just run him out at the non strikers for 78 147 for 5 needing 39 off 46!! Too late? Well it's still a game isn't it but we don't seem to be able to come back from these in finals.

.

Wouldnt ask Kartik back next year either. Looks like a man who doesnt want to be there to be honest.
Beyond Pathetic with the bat today, really awful, Hard to blame the bowlers again today nothing to play with but at least two of them were`nt very good either.
Lousy day and a certain team in red lost as well, they were poor defensively too including 2 OGs.
Things can only improve, but then we`ve been saying that for too long too.
We appear to lack the killer instinct and seem almost afraid to win when it matters. Is there anyone who can change that from within the club (or from elsewhere) I wonder?
Oh well, Are we allowed to talk about this on this thread ? I think not, but we might get away with it.!
We will try again next year, hopefully making full use of our
youngsters more. For those who say they haven't shown enough, lets use them for the first half of the season at least.
Signing so-called ready made 'stars' proves nothing and it doesn't guarantee success - it will be interesting to see how we cope in India, as long as Alfonso uses the young ones sensibly.
Continued on other one thread as per the rules.
I would play the youngsters too if Im honest now but CC1 is going to be tougher next year and it may be too much for them.
For once, I am lost for ideas about how we can move forward and feel a change of management may be in order.
vastly entertaining.
Just a bit more luck and we would have won a few.
Before the five wins 79-83 we came second five at least five times. What is the hurry (no pun etc..)
Next season, I fear others will be stronger and we either have to get stronger ourselves or falter.
Put simply....you have to win the trophies when you have the best side. My fear is we wont with this one now!!
BUT
It's evident after today that something is still wrong. Maybe not alot. The talent is there. And let us not forget it took a brilliant ton by Ian Bell to beat us last year, that like-it-or-not Notts did win more CC matches than us and today we've gone down to a very, very decent Surrey side.
HOWEVER it's still a major disappointment and matter of concern to come 2nd 7 times in 3 seasons. We may one day look back at this era as a golden time for SCC..the oustanding batsman in county cricket, one of the world's best one day bowlers, a decent batting line up, some great youngsters like Joss..yet our trophy cabinet is BARE. But should it be?
I would like to think serious questions are now asked. Is our captain good enough as skipper or should we be bold and appoint JH for next season? When this week we've seen Peter Moores and Chris Adams coach their sides to silverware, is our backroom staff really good enough? Popular and good people yes..but winners? Has the overseas signing done enough to justfiy being asked back next year? I think we all know the answer to that one. Can we continue to afford to waste members money on signings like Mendis and to a lesser degree Pollard?
I feel this season..for whatever reason..we have gone backwards slightly and it's no use simply going into next season thinking everything will automatically be ok and we are just unlucky. The CC will be a tougher league next season with the 2 London sides promoted. Our CB40 draw is very, very tough. By the law of averages its going to be hard to reach another T20 final. Lets hope over the winter..while congratulating themselves for getting alot right this season and giving us plenty to enjoy..those in charge will not be complacent and try to look to find the solutions to what's gone wrong and why we've come 2nd 7 times and 1st 0.
No player wants to lose and I'm not for one minute getting on their backs. As I say, they've still given us alot to celebrate this year. Most counties would dream of 1 cup final, let alone 2 in a season. But we have to try and find the reasons for never quite crossing the line...
We were outplayed in the other four.
Naxxar - it is surely only six second places, rather than seven, as we were a distant fourth in this year's CC?
There seems to be a fairly strong anti-Kartik current on here at the moment. The suggestion seems to be that he has developed an attitude problem? Perhaps all those niggles have got on top of him?
I suppose we will probably now try to replace him as overseas pro, though it is surely probable that we will again have to employ a platoon arrangement as almost every worthwhile international cricketer - other than Pakistanis- will be playing in the cursed IPL.
Quote:ronnies
the problem is taung last year we were the best side no problem. This year we kept going but not so dominant.Next season, I fear others will be stronger and we either have to get stronger ourselves or falter.Put simply....you have to win the trophies when you have the best side. My fear is we wont with this one now!!
Very true, last year was probably the best chance of glory. If only a couple of things had gone differently.
There will be changes, that is natural. I am so proud to have you write that we were the best team.
My problem is I am quite happy to come second. Totally wrong I agree in this era.
...it's not for the sake of a ribboned coat...etc..
In truth we batted very poorly, bowled rather poorly and fielded even worse.
Why is it that our top order still feel you need to hit a six every 12 / 13 balls in order to win a limited overs game of cricket. In truth Marcus, Craig and Peter gave their wickets away trying to score quick runs far to early.
James just played a totally@#$%&shot.
Well done to Jos who did everything right.
Seems to me we have a coaching problem - is not he the man who should sit them down and explain about building an innings even in limited overs cricket like Jos did. Or are the likes of Marcus, Craig, Peter and James thinking that AH can teach them nothing - in which case..........??
Bowling was sort of OK but again we were far more expensive than they were in terms of runs per over - as per every ..............oh forget it, I despair and sometimes wonder if the players really care. Sad to say ....................but there.
There's always next year.
We were outplayed in the other four.
Naxxar - it is surely only six second places, rather than seven, as we were a distant fourth in this year's CC?
3 years ago we came 2nd in the 40 over competition when it was a league..we blew the final match at home to Durham..so its 7 runners up in 3 seasons!
Brilliant post, excellent analysis too.
a great turnout from the west country, outnumbering Surrey fans by a fair degree...and many in good voice until the result was clear...disappointed, but quietly proud to be a small part of it.
p.s.
though another poor attendance overall - can't blame it being a day-night game for this year's poor crowd - not sure why, but 40 over cricket doesn't seem to appeal to a live domestic audience
Many supporters may also have been put off due to experiencing problems with refunds during the disastrous T20 Taunton weather.
WCG, I agree there have been some strange selections, particularly with GD being replaced by SK for the T20 final
Bring on next season!
Agree with the criticisms of the batsmen, with the exception of Buttler who was superb, Arul who was unlucky and maybe Meschede who was deceived, the rest were poor with bad shot selection trying to hit it out the ground. Tresco again failed - he actually has a poor record in finals given his calibre.
Surrey didn't have to take any risks and on the whole batted sensibly.
I get the impression that other teams have sussed out our batting – prepare slow wickets and bowl slow and watch Somerset self-destruct.
I think we are beyond the point of "we will learn lessons" and "it is only a matter of time". It would be good to hear some self-criticism and see some implementation of how to plan an innings.
We can't keep hiding behind 'bad luck'/'better than it was a few years ago'/'it's only a game' etc..
The plain fact is that we repeatedly bottle it when it really matters.
Most annoying thing of all is that it is not lack of talent that we have. Instead, it is a lack of self belief, of cohesion & application.
I don't know what to think of our prospects for 2012. They ought to be good, but in truth I presently feel trepidation.
To be honest, I hope we don't re-sign Kartik for next year. He has not delivered what we needed & today was very poor indeed. Similarly, I don't want to see KP back for one day duty - just not reliable enough.
Bowling looks pretty threadbare for next year & I hope BR has some good signings in his cupboard.
Batting will depend on application of talent, and probably at least one solid signing.
As for the Captaincy/Coach/Management, I regret wondering whether those roles can really all stay unchanged given our continuing soft underbelly.
Sorry chaps, but we do have issues to deal with & whilst we have come great distances in the last few years, we really don't want to be perennial bridesmaids.
....................... do we ?
Grizzzly
I just hope we haven't blown our chances for a while. Last year we were by some distance the best team in country in all formats and had nothing to show for it. This year not so dominant, but still very good- and nothing to show for it. next year will be tougher still with Surrey back in D1, Jos likely to miss a big swathe of the summer with England, maybe CK too. Rumors of Arul departing also hint at a period of rebuilding perhaps.
You also have to worry that this "choking" (media word, not mine) becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy.
I don't know really what can be done. Player wise i'd probably swap Murali for a batter next year, and play Dockrell in his place but that is tinkering around the edges. The real problem is mental, and I have no idea how you fix that.
We may have lost some of them, but not all.
Marcus is a world class batsman, one of the best, but a skipper?
Still, better to be second than last.
I think.
I wasn't a fan of JL, certainly for his last season with us, but with the talent we have, can you imagine what we would achieve if we could only find some grit ?!
Grizzzly
Discounting SK who is always that way and of course Jos who was outstanding, the rest was silence.
Look at how Jade Dernbach was fired up and produced an excellent bowling performance for Surrey. I thought both Surrey and previously Leicestershire in the T20 final seemed to want to win more than we did.
I didn't see the recent County Championship games but my son did and he was upset by our lack of application.
I fear the future may not be good unless these matters are addressed.
Quote:AGod
I think Little Keithy is spot on. It's not worth management repeating 'we'll learn lessons,' guff because it's pretty obvious that this group of batsmen will not do so - they have not demonstrated a capacity for learning in one day cricket - this is evidenced by the fact that we do not seem to have shown any improvement in playing spin on slow surfaces - as shown by numerous poor performances in away games in such conditions this season.
Sure some things are done better sometimes, but logically from what you say, in the short CB40 and T20, 16 teams in each competition got it more wrong than us, unless of course you think they were unlucky, while we were useless because we lost in the finals.
Quote:AGod
Realistically, of the 5 one-day finals, we can only truly say we were unlucky against Hants.
We were outplayed in the other four.
Not so, AGod.
We lost the Twenty20 Final v. Hampshire last year simply because the players did not know the laws of the game. Personally, I don’t regard that as being “unlucky.”
OK - that is all 'water under the bridge' now, but I suspect that the players themselves may have been psychologically damaged by the manner in which they lost. I know that Marcus said shortly after that game that the moment would haunt him for a long time.
I have often wondered whether, had we won that piece of silverware, we would have had the inner strength and self - belief to succeed in some of the other 'near misses' that have since followed.
We shall never know of course.
However, when the team and officials return from India, I feel confident that there will be an extensive de - briefing of everyone at the club as to why the season’s results were as they were.
The Club officials will need to address this with Brian Rose, and no doubt Rose will do so likewise with the players and his coaching staff etc.
Then, let us hope that whatever is deemed necessary will be acted upon - be it Rose's role at the club, the coaching staff, captaincy, retention / recruitment of players, pitches etc.
Much work still to be done, I would hazard to suggest.
Quote:old boy!Quote:AGod
I think Little Keithy is spot on. It's not worth management repeating 'we'll learn lessons,' guff because it's pretty obvious that this group of batsmen will not do so - they have not demonstrated a capacity for learning in one day cricket - this is evidenced by the fact that we do not seem to have shown any improvement in playing spin on slow surfaces - as shown by numerous poor performances in away games in such conditions this season.
Sure some things are done better sometimes, but logically from what you say, in the short CB40 and T20, 16 teams in each competition got it more wrong than us, unless of course you think they were unlucky, while we were useless because we lost in the finals.
No. I think we are extremely good in certain conditions - pricipally when we are playing on tracks with good pace - such as those at Taunton and some of the away tracks we encountered in T20, such as Chelmsford and Trent Bridge.
Put us on something slow, such as at Bristol or Bath or Southgate, however and we become a very ordinary one day side.
The other 17 counties? Most of them are not as good on any surface as we are on pacy ones.
His utter refusal to go against Dernbach at the end was classic Kirby and his bowling was fiery and effective. Yeah 2 for 39 at 7 isn't wonderful ut it was from the heart and he did get the early wickets which was his job.
Jos was superb but Steve NEVER gave up and would have given his life for a win.

He may have to!!!
I hope they give Gemaal a really effective winter of hard graft and he comes back leaner, fitter, hungrier and ready to be Kirbs understudy.

Quote:Botham
Yeah, for all the stick I've given Steve Kirby this season and I still believe he's not best suited to T20, I'd put him in my other teams every time, because he gives his all and that's all we can ask for.
Kirbs has done well for us this year. He effectively replaced Ben Phillips and I can't see why he warrants much criticism.
He's certainly one of my candidates for Player of the Season and has far outstripped the expectations I had for him in 2011

Quote:Right Arm OverQuote:Botham
Yeah, for all the stick I've given Steve Kirby this season and I still believe he's not best suited to T20, I'd put him in my other teams every time, because he gives his all and that's all we can ask for.
Kirbs has done well for us this year. He effectively replaced Ben Phillips and I can't see why he warrants much criticism.
I criticised his selection in T20, as I believe we need bowlers with plenty of control and variation, who are also pretty nimble in the field. Giving your all is what we'd expect from any player given the honour of wearing a Somerset shirt, but in the fast moving T20 we need guile.
T20 is not always a game for pace bowlers admittedly but I'd credit SK with more 'guile' than you do I think.
Anyway T20 is only one facet of the game....

Warning for the 'Happy Campers' - please look away now.
1) Lets start at the very end - yeah, I know they were the victorious side, but I found in interesting how the Surrey players came right over to their fans in the Compton stand at the end to thank them for making the epic journey across the whole of London ! My team could only muster a half hearted above the head style clap, from the middle.
For a lot of fans, this was a 24 hour day, and best part of £100 spent. Makes me wonder whether they care ? Other posters have already alluded to this - I tend to agree.
2) The bizarre team huddle at the end ? What was that about ? Surely that should be a private moment - unless, and it would appear to obviously be the case, it was a show for the fans' sake ?
Totally misplaced in my view - unless it was Marcus advising the team that he has taken it as far as he can, and will be stepping down to give someone else ago. There, I've said it.
3) The batting - do you know, I really cannot be bothered to waste any of my time thinking about this - just like most of those did.
4) BR's comments about "having a plan, but the batsman not sticking to it". That says it all really, and sadly no idea how you "coach" them to do so.
5) The failure (yet again) for a professional, first-class cricket team to look at a surface / judge conditions AND SET A REASONABLE/DEFENDABLE SCORE !!
Why. of why, do they set off it the blind belief that they will get 320/340, and end up with 200/220 ??!!
6) Murali Kartik - good riddance really. Middlesex knew this. Really didn't look as though he cared. Dropped a crucial catch in the semi final - fortunately that one didn't end up hurting us. This one probably did !
Always gets out bowled by the opposition spinners.
7) Joss - hero again. Plain and simple. Better get used to playing a lot of next year without him. Lets hope we have a replacement ?
8) The 'in the hunt for 3 trophy thing' - I replied to a posters optimism / belief that this makes losing them ALL OK, a while back. To re-cap, I said in that post that "Leicestershire and 2 other teams will not be envying us at the end of the season". Just to confirm, for the records sake, that those 3 teams are Leicestershire, Lancashire and Surrey !
9) Next year - looking at the CB40 groups, on the plus side, we won't have to worry about losing in the final again next year !
10) Said it before and I'll say it again - we need Ponting (or possibly Smith as suggested above) to bring some spine to the team, and deal with that soft underbelly. I got various responses to my post on this - some quite dismissive of his abilities. Look at it from his perspective though - looking at our performances / bottle / spine / ability to learn / ability to adapt - why would he want to come here ?
Suggestions on the same postcard that you will all be sending to Marcus.
To confirm, these are my personal thoughts, as a fan who wants success. Yes, they are (just about) in the heat of the moment, but are just my opinion.
I so want to be looking on the positive side, and suggesting ways that things can be improved. But it's the BR comment above, and the astute posting earlier regarding our batsmen STILL not adapting to slow tracks / bowling attacks that really makes this difficult right now.
I am sorry if I upset others with these comments.
Now, for the 'happy campers' - you can come back into the room, and I'll finish by adding that when we win the Champions T20 league, this will make everything fine !
We are not an adapatable side it seems, we do not operate flexibily. Bowlers come on to bowl when they were planned to, batsmen play at the pace they were told to, the order remains the same even if things are going pear shaped. It's all a bit 'old school'.
I don't think your speculation about MT's position is a poor call. He must have thought about it after the second season of no success and a number of the same issues.
Can't agree about POnting being the man but that is simply a matter of opinion, most counties could do with someone to kick their players into gear most of the time.
Can't agree about them not caring... this last few sessions must have been deja vu for a lot of them and some of it has not been the fault of the county. Injuries and absences mucked up and slapped our side about a bit. A bit of time as a unit didn't seem an issue to me personally seeing as they are nearly straight on a plane to Hydrabad and another competition.
The radio said that they came straight out of that and went to the fans....
I'm not sure how I would have felt having been there again. Kinda glad I wasn't. I really am sick of seeing us get to finals and lose to teams because we simply don't turn up rather than because we were roundly beaten in a good contest we participated in.

He's a big lad and isn't as nimble as some others IMHO.
Good to hear an honest appraisal from a new poster.
oh NO -
we were 4th 2nd and 2nd!!!!
Well done lads - and that was with the world's best batsman not available for 20% of the season.
The logic of my argument was lost on him, but then he is only 10. Many posters on here do not have the same excuse.
No-one wants to get over that line more than me, and we may well have to make a few changes both in personnel and style to do that, but would some people prefer we don't get there at all?
The past 24 hours has seen some of the finest postings in many a long year, quite moving.
How long till next season?
I can't wait.
I would definitely agree that many of the counties would love to be in our position. This is one of the most exciting Somerset teams to take the field in recent years.
So I suppose the frustration stems from the fact that we have the ability to achieve so much but keep falling short.
It was great to be in the Edrich Stand singing along to all the songs and getting behind the lads.
We simply got the basics wrong in the 1st 15 overs and Jos showed what could be done.
I know there's lots of of people saying certain players may leave etc but i remember being a fan 20 yrs ago when season's like this were a million miles away.
We will get there soon and i for one will be there to watch it happen.
Well done again on every "ciderhead" that made the trip to Lords and lets hope/pray that we get a trophy next season!!
COACH
Quote:Brother Of
It was great to be in the Edrich Stand singing along to all the songs and getting behind the lads.
It was indeed. The support was fantastic and some of those songs were genius.
A massive shame the performance didn't match the fans but i've no doubt the support wasn't lost on the players.

Wurz
Last year, there were 14 supporters coaches, this year only 9.
Couple that with the fact that the semi-final was poorly attended and it would appear that it will only be a matter of time until the poor performance / arrogant attitude of the players hit the club the hardest.
At the end of the day, we as fans can say anything we want within this forum, but ultimately is the £££'s that do the real talking.
Remember, its the £££'s we need to begin to address some of the glaring problems.
I think the attitude and mentality of our supporters is a bigger issue than that of the players.
We have been spoilt for the past few years winning a huge % of our games, all be it not the crucial ones at the end of the season.
As such i think the tolerance levels of defeat from lots of our supporters is now very low.
This may soon effect the levels of support in the near future.
We have reached the last 5 domestic one day finals, yet we seem to have a huge amount of unhappy supporters demanding sweeping changes.
If this turns into non attendance at games due to the perceived lack of talent/bottle/nerve then yes it will definitely have a £££ effect on the club.
If every club was only well supported when it won trophies then 15 counties every season would struggle badly (this i suggest is the case at many far less successfull counties already!?)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:18:21:59:55 by nelliec.
I hadn't previously heard of the "arrogant attitude of the players" you mention, swerve. With the introduction of the well-received (on Grockles) Compo's Clips, I'd got the impression from afar that player/spectator relations were pretty good - do you have chapter and verse that says different?
One of them had seen every day of every CB 40 and every County Championship match played at Taunton this year - what a supporter.
He went to Lord's yesterday, but told me on Friday (as previously had the other three to whom I talked) that he thought that Somerset would lose.
I have to say that I shared their pessimistic attitude concerning the result of yet another one - day final.
I am not going to say that our forecasts were typical, but there is a growing lack of confidence, amongst some members and supporters, in our team's ability to win some silverware.
They believe that something is wrong within the club, and I know that they are heartily sick of paying out their hard - earned money to follow and support their club on the big occasions. One is probably talking about £100 each for the cost of ticket, transport, food, drink, programme etc.
I am not surprised that support would appear to be down, for the final is not the showpiece of the county cricket calendar that it once was.
That is a great disappointment also.
Have to agree with you Ron about frustration. As long as people keep their levels within manageable limits I'm sure there'll be lively debate over the winter and possibily even some surprises for all of us.
Somerset aren't a poor side (though they can be) and they aren't a great side (though once again they can be). There are things that need sorting and things that should be left well alone. They are consistently inconsistent and have been for as long as I've been watching them and to some extent that makes most games exciting and frustrating in equal measure.
The thing that possibly needs avoiding to keep discussions lively are the perceptions that someone's view of the county is the correct one and brooks no argument from 'the other side' (whichever that may be).
I personally know of very few on here who have 'blind loyalty' or 'blind pessimism' though there are those who can wallow in either.
This year turned into the 'developmental'season some predicted it may be and we all need to see how things develop before the start of 2012.
Interesting times. At least it is never dull.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:19:07:40:53 by Grockle.
The successful cricket bosses {presumably, but not exclusively, those who have won something} always happily lap up the praise heaped on them in victory, but very freqently heap the dirt on the chosen players when things go wrong.
My point - who chose the team? - interestingly the 'young players' who saw us through in the semi were not considered worthy enough. One obvious mistake was to overestimate Murali's usefullness. This season as a bowler his performance would have justified non-selection with any other bowler.
Nevertheless, I still think that we have an excellent season.
Kartik's body language to me also states a bit lack of enthusiasm as well but they may be the fact he has played constantly, needs a break etc.
I would be a little more disappointed had he still been producing stuff at the end of a full season that he was at the start but that isn't the way it went. His bowling in the last games was irrelavant based on the lay off and the injury situation.
I expect to see a different, harder, sharper more switched on player at the start of 2012 after a very hard winter (they need to work him possibly harder than he has ever been worked before) and I am moderately optimistic about the future for the man. Inch Allah!

I inferred from Brian's comments that he had asked the batsman to play sensibly and conserve wickets ?
As we know, they made no conspicuous attempt to do so!
Does this suggest a problem of the 'batsmen simply don't think that Brian's plans hold water,' variety? Is there a fundamental philosophical difference of opinion between the batsmen and Brian as to how to approach one-day cricket?
Quote:Naxxar
3 years ago we came 2nd in the 40 over competition when it was a league..we blew the final match at home to Durham..so its 7 runners up in 3 seasons!
Wonder who was captain when we failed to get over tha line and win a trophy that day?
The reason I ask I know nothing about football and I hear of football managers taking the blame for bad results do they have more responsibility?
.
Traditionaly all the strategic decisions in cricket were made by the captain and any advice he may have saught would have come from on the field.The manager of old would have done little more than booking the hotel rooms and sweet talking the proprietor if the boys were too rowdy. In the modern game though, this has changed though not to the extreme of football. Selections, game plans etc are now much more of a calaboration between captain, coach and manager (I think we are unusual in having such a hands on manager, probably due to having a coach with such limited cricket experience). The captain is still in total charge on the pitch, i suspect the authorities would take a dim view of a manager/ coach yelling from the balcony Fergusson style, but i am sure each break a conference takes place and i suspect instructions come out with each drinks bottle etc.
Quote:Ronniesabre
on the Kartik point why are we even bothering to talk to him? Surely his performances with the ball are not enough to warrant a new contract. I think he took about 6/7 more first class wickets from the same number of games as Hussain and he is being viewed as being disappointing.
Kartik's body language to me also states a bit lack of enthusiasm as well but they may be the fact he has played constantly, needs a break etc.
I have it on good authority he was approached by Surrey 2 months ago offering alot more money than we are paying him and will probably play for them next season
We should look elsewhere anyway. We have a history of holding on to overseas players a year or so longer than we should. Most tend to peak in their first season before the rigours of playing all year round take their toll.
Quote:Railboy
Shirley if that was the game plan (and i have no gripes about it) it is better to have batsmen more suited to preserving their wicket at the top of the order whilst keeping those more disposed to clubbing it for later. We seemed set up for our usual blitzcreig in the power play followed by steady consolidation. If that was not the plan it smacks more of poor planning rather than weak implementation.
Exactly! Lessons were not learnt from the semi final. It would have made sense to have Arul opening, Craig maybe at 3 and Pete pushed down the order..or vice versia..so there was a big hitter to come in along with Jos nearer the end. Instead we packed the top order, went for the crash bang wallop approach and never recovered.
Quote:Grockle
I'm personally not disappointed with Gemaal. I've only really had about half a season to watch and even though I don't accept this "Second division, different ball, bowler friendly Bristol" gubbings. I expected the start to be tentative and the learning curve to be steep.
I would be a little more disappointed had he still been producing stuff at the end of a full season that he was at the start but that isn't the way it went. His bowling in the last games was irrelavant based on the lay off and the injury situation.
I expect to see a different, harder, sharper more switched on player at the start of 2012 after a very hard winter (they need to work him possibly harder than he has ever been worked before) and I am moderately optimistic about the future for the man. Inch Allah!
He undoubtedly has promise..as was witnessed by his excellent bowling at home to Worcs..but so far he has proved a disappointing signing. He is too expensive, he doesn't add much with his batting and his fielding is a liability. He looked totally lacking in confidence in the Lancs game. There is still much hard work to be done and the coaching staff don't seem to have succeeded yet. Oh sorry we don't have a bowling coach do we!
What he really meant is Im not signing as Ive been made a better offer and Im gonna take that so Im offski.
I think personally I'll give him a season's worth of games before I write him off but the faults he had in his first games are certainly going to have to disappear by the start of next season for him to be a long term prospect.

At least he knows what the 1st divsion and playing at Taunton is all about now and what he has to do to ensure he can cope and deal with it.

On a cricketing note, I note that Arul, according to WDP, has signed a contract so that rumour can be squashed.
On the game plan argument. For all his brilliance, I think Tresco has to take some of the blame. He is the most talented and senior of the batsman and should be playing innings like Richards of old ie set out to score a century and be MoM – shouldn't even be doubted.
But his one day final form is very poor. I don't think there has been a score above 50 if you go back to 1999 and the glos game. If he plays a stupid shot and is out early then it seems the others become unsettled and follow suit.
I can't imagine the great IVA being stumped after only 5 overs and he certainly thrived on the big occasion.
IMO the senior players should be made to sit down and watch an endless loop of Jos Buttler's innings at Lords. That young man must feel very let down by his team mates
It's not talent we lack, it's application & the ability to hold our nerve.
Let's face it, if we had actually turned up for even some of the various finals across the last few years, we would be drinking wine from plenty of fine silverware !
Mark Ramprakash & Graeme Hick could never adequately convert talent to International level & it seems we are collectively unable to do the same when the finish line comes near.
Hope it can be remedied next year, but I do think changes are needed & we need to let some of our 'talent' go - MK for one.
Grizzzly
I agree with you about the assessment of international signings Botham. Good job then that we have had the first type for the last decade and very few (if any) of the ones just in it for the money aye?

I mention this because my impression of Kartik's spirited batting in the latter part of the season indicated (in my opinion) no lack of commitment to Somerset's cause.
LoL
Sixty-six Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Oh thou of instant wisdom!!!! Just what I have been saying.
As far as his bowling is concerned the heart is willing but the flesh is
weak!!!!!Quote:Grockle
Well on a third of a season Naxxar that's quite a damning asessment of a bowler coming to a new county and settling in who was on a par (in fact slightly ahead of) the young prospect (can't remember his name now) many were punting for Somerset to sign to replace him.
I think personally I'll give him a season's worth of games before I write him off but the faults he had in his first games are certainly going to have to disappear by the start of next season for him to be a long term prospect.
Its not a damning assessment at all..its a fair summation of his Somerset career so far. In no way does it write him off. It states he has promise but so far has not delivered what we hoped. He is on a fairly decent wage packet. This season we could afford for him to be on a learning curve once Alf came back but next season the demands on our bowlers to perform might be greater if Willo leaves. There is not a pot of gold to significantly strengthen our squad for 2012 though we'd all like a few good new signings. So it should be a big year ahead for Gemaal. I've seen enough to know he can succeed...lets hope he will.
Normally, if a bowler is a scattergun, they are the kind of guy who reliably serves up one four ball at least every other over and that's their modus operandi.
But I've seen Hussain bowl 18 or 24 pretty accurate balls to open a spell... and then bowl 12 or 18 balls that include 4 or so four balls! And I've seen him do that on two separate occasions. Is it a fitness and stamina issue? Or is it more a matter of concentration? I hope it's the former as that should be easier to fix?



