Howzat for a Dice Game?
Howzat!
By Adelaide
November 23 2013
Adelaide gives us some insight into how he kept himself amused in his formative years playing a game a number of us may have enjoyed in our youth.
Does anyone else remember this very simple but enjoyable all weather cricket dice game?
Two dice, which happened to be hexagonal metal cylinders rather than cubes.
The first has the numbers 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6, with the sixth face reading HOWZAT! If you get one of the numbers, they are added to your score. If you get the appeal, you roll the second dice ...
... which has four "out" faces (from memory - bowled, caught, lbw and stumped - or was it "run out"?), one "not out" and one "no ball". Get the "not out" and you have the only way of getting a dot ball. Get the "no ball" and a run is added, plus you get an extra ball.
The low number of dot balls makes me wonder whether the inventors had thought of Twenty20 forty years or more before it happened.
Being a simple sort of chap, I passed many an hour playing pretend games. I was never one for having matches between Dr Who characters and American presidents, but I'm sure some did. I stuck to real cricketers playing for real counties. I was scrupulously fair, so of course Middlesex won a lot more often than not.
I think I even built in my own variations, based on the averages of the real players involved. Star batsman - one of the "out" faces became "not out" - that sort of thing. I think this was inspired by a football equivalent called Wembley (how original!) which had dice with different values depending on which division the club was in, and whether they were home or away.
Now I thought this was a thing of the past, but having started to write this I googled the thing and found it was still on sale. I would have thought that all the computer games available now would have finished off anything so simple. Perhaps fathers buy it for their children who say “that’s great, Dad” and then contrive to lose the dice quickly.
Better still, I found a thread at http://www.h2g2.com/forums/A4108330/conversation/view/2124165/6190175 entitled SEX: Howzat Statistics, combining three important parts of my life in one. Regrettably, SEX actually stands for "Science Explained" but its use provides a delightlfully spurious link to MTWD via our favourite chant. The discussion is on the mathematics and probabilities of the game - what's a typical score, what's nearly unbeatable and so on. It's a simple game, so extremely amenable to relatively simple analysis of this nature - well, simple compared to chess anyway.
Surrey supporters will be disappointed there is no "run out backing up" face on the second dice for Murali Kartik. Nor is there a Billy Godleman dice (0, 0, 0, 0, 0 and let's roll a third die to see if he actually scored), a Shahid Afridi (three sixes and three HOWZATs) or a Chanderpaul T20 final version (all singles).
Any other ideas on bespoke dice for particular players?
Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: Middlesex till we die (IP Logged)
Date: 23/11/2013 11:20
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:12:21:12:48:20 by BarmierKev.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:12:21:12:48:20 by BarmierKev.
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
Date: 23/11/2013 11:36
Unfortunately, I never had that game.
But I did do something similar. I have to admit it usually involved a newsreaders XI v childrens tv presenters, or similar.
The way I played you threw the dice- and anything other than a one or six was a 'dot ball'. If a one or a six you threw again. Five equalled 'out' whereas you got the runs for any other number (which meant a disproportionately high number of sixes) I think with lower order batsman I only let them score runs if a one was thrown (otherwise batsmen XI could just as easily score as many as the 'proper' batsman)- and I don't think I let anyone lower than seven in the order score any sixes (for the same reason)
On one occasion Valerie Singleton made 318 not out!
But I did do something similar. I have to admit it usually involved a newsreaders XI v childrens tv presenters, or similar.
The way I played you threw the dice- and anything other than a one or six was a 'dot ball'. If a one or a six you threw again. Five equalled 'out' whereas you got the runs for any other number (which meant a disproportionately high number of sixes) I think with lower order batsman I only let them score runs if a one was thrown (otherwise batsmen XI could just as easily score as many as the 'proper' batsman)- and I don't think I let anyone lower than seven in the order score any sixes (for the same reason)
On one occasion Valerie Singleton made 318 not out!
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: Jonathan Winsky (IP Logged)
Date: 23/11/2013 12:02
The above h2g2 thread links to a scorecard of a match between Mu Beta's World XI and Cavendish Cavaliers in 2008, with Mu Beta's World XI looking like an all-star XI and Cavendish Cavaliers consistently of made-up players (although there is a J Ryder). It is strange to see Dawid Malan's name in Mu Beta World's XI, although I suppose it is indicative that he was seen in 2008 as being likely to at some point become a regular in the England side, mainly on the strength of one innings v Lancashire at The Oval.
In the fantasy match, AC was out for 4 off 2 balls without hitting any boundaries, but I have no idea how that is possible!
In the fantasy match, AC was out for 4 off 2 balls without hitting any boundaries, but I have no idea how that is possible!
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
Date: 23/11/2013 12:14
Score two off the first ball- then two off the next- but then get run out attempting a third?
That would give you 4 runs off two balls with no boundaries.
That would give you 4 runs off two balls with no boundaries.
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: adelaide (IP Logged)
Date: 23/11/2013 12:20
Quote:chunkyinargyll
Unfortunately, I never had that game.
But I did do something similar. I have to admit it usually involved a newsreaders XI v childrens tv presenters, or similar.
How many of them have appeared in court yet, Chunky?
Adelaide
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
Date: 23/11/2013 12:27
Come to think of it, I think Rolf Harris and Stuart Hall appeared in some of my games!
In the 'game' JW linked to I can see someone else made 11 off 3 balls, with one 4 and no sixes- so clearly that game needs to be investigated by the under cover match fixing squad.
In the 'game' JW linked to I can see someone else made 11 off 3 balls, with one 4 and no sixes- so clearly that game needs to be investigated by the under cover match fixing squad.
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: Fozzie (IP Logged)
Date: 23/11/2013 14:42
I also played this game, Adelaide, and in fact a couple of years ago I received a retro edition as a Christmas stocking filler. I haven't actaully indulged myself in its delights again, though.
I got my first Wisden in 1964 and became very interested in cricket history, so I generally played series between all-time World XIs I selected (with the scores meticulously recorded in exercise books). Or sometimes I compiled teams of players whose surnames began with the same letter. The Fs were not the strongest team, but benefitted immensely from the inclusion of an excellent all-rounder by the name of Fozzie, who batted at #7 and bowled leg-breaks with considerable success.
I got my first Wisden in 1964 and became very interested in cricket history, so I generally played series between all-time World XIs I selected (with the scores meticulously recorded in exercise books). Or sometimes I compiled teams of players whose surnames began with the same letter. The Fs were not the strongest team, but benefitted immensely from the inclusion of an excellent all-rounder by the name of Fozzie, who batted at #7 and bowled leg-breaks with considerable success.
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: BarmierKev (IP Logged)
Date: 23/11/2013 15:46
I played this game in the 70's. I had real 1st class line ups and had Middlesex in County Championship and 1 day cups. I'm afraid I do not recall enough to compile full match reports but there are significant highlights that come to mind. Against Kent Graham Barlow made a chance less 50 of less than 20 balls. Against Gloucester there was a Mike Selvey Hat trick ( a more than 216 to 1 chance) Andy Stovold, Sadiq Mohammed and Zaheer Abbas-quality.
A modern version for Sorry should have with Howzat dice option Batty Boy throwing toys out of pram Not Out.
Barmy Kev
I'm only here for the tele
A modern version for Sorry should have with Howzat dice option Batty Boy throwing toys out of pram Not Out.
Barmy Kev
I'm only here for the tele
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: BarmierKev (IP Logged)
Date: 23/11/2013 15:59
Out of interest what is probability of hat trick? 1 in 216 (6X6X6)for 3 "Howzats". Then 3 2/3 chances of an "Out" decision. Not sure how to factor this in. Any staticians out there?
A modern game would have DRS option on Howzat dice. With another hexagonal device for various subsequent options.
Barmy Kev
I'm only here for the tele
A modern game would have DRS option on Howzat dice. With another hexagonal device for various subsequent options.
Barmy Kev
I'm only here for the tele
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: adelaide (IP Logged)
Date: 23/11/2013 17:40
Quote:BarmierKev
Out of interest what is probability of hat trick? 1 in 216 (6X6X6)for 3 "Howzats". Then 3 2/3 chances of an "Out" decision. Not sure how to factor this in. Any staticians out there?
A modern game would have DRS option on Howzat dice. With another hexagonal device for various subsequent options.
I am that statistician. Kev.
Out of 36 plays, instead of 6 giving a wicket (if all the faces carried a method of dismissal) only 4 do, thus 1 in 9. So the chance of a hat trick is 1 in 729.
Adelaide, probably
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: freddie tittlemouse (IP Logged)
Date: 23/11/2013 23:26
I could have sworn that my set was called "OWZTHAT" . In fact there are some vintage 50s sets called Owzthat on Ebay, complete with Owzthat on the dice.
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: BarmierKev (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2013 10:24
Well it happened once for me and I had at least 729 rolls of the dice. Mike Selvey on my Howzat Hall of Hame
Quote:adelaideQuote:BarmierKev
Out of interest what is probability of hat trick? 1 in 216 (6X6X6)for 3 "Howzats". Then 3 2/3 chances of an "Out" decision. Not sure how to factor this in. Any staticians out there?
A modern game would have DRS option on Howzat dice. With another hexagonal device for various subsequent options.
I am that statistician. Kev.
Out of 36 plays, instead of 6 giving a wicket (if all the faces carried a method of dismissal) only 4 do, thus 1 in 9. So the chance of a hat trick is 1 in 729.
Adelaide, probably
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: adelaide (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2013 16:27
1 in 729 "triple plays", Kev, so you would have needed 2,187 individual balls/rolls to be able to say "yes, I'd expect one hat trick".
Name of the game could well have been different, Freddie. Goodness knows what happened to my set.
Adelaide
Name of the game could well have been different, Freddie. Goodness knows what happened to my set.
Adelaide
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: Radlett Ronnie (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2013 21:22
I used to play this game but I made my teams up. It seemed to me that a bowling attack of Genghis Khan and Attilla the Hun would be a test for anyone, with Rommel as first change.
Rasputin was my leading spinner.
You get the idea...
Rasputin was my leading spinner.
You get the idea...
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: Sussex Seaxe (IP Logged)
Date: 25/11/2013 21:16
I played it too and once played an entire Australian tour of England. It was 1968 I remember and for some reason Graham Corling became a great favourite of mine, without ever seeing him play
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: comebackgatt (IP Logged)
Date: 27/11/2013 14:40
Mine was a slight variation played with playing cards, divide the pack in two, first card was the batter. Runs if you turned over 1-4 and 6.and 4 byes if turned over a 5. If the two cards matched a wicket fell. if you turned over the joker together = hatrick.If memory serves me right, 10 goes through the pack equalled a days play
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: adelaide (IP Logged)
Date: 27/11/2013 18:19
If you got the joker, I would have thought it meant Ray East coming on to bowl.
Adelaide
Adelaide
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: Bjacko (IP Logged)
Date: 19/01/2015 05:16
Quote:Middlesex till we die
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Hi all
An update to the history of this game. I have a new copy of the game as it was provided back in 1980, complete with what appears to be a d.k. lillee picture on the front. Same rules apply as the newer version. Was distributed by Esso Australia through their service station chain. Anyone got any other news? I have some pictures, but can't seem to attach.
Cheers
BillJ
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: adelaide (IP Logged)
Date: 20/01/2015 18:07
A Lillee picture on the front? Does that mean the dice are made of aluminium?
I don't recall a box at all for the original version but I suppose there must have been something.
Adelaide
I don't recall a box at all for the original version but I suppose there must have been something.
Adelaide
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: Bjacko (IP Logged)
Date: 20/01/2015 21:58
Quote:adelaide
A Lillee picture on the front? Does that mean the dice are made of aluminium?
I don't recall a box at all for the original version but I suppose there must have been something.
Adelaide
Hello Adelaide
The game was distributed in Australia through the Esso (Exxon) service station chain back in the 1980. Consisted of a printed cardboard cover that had the Lillee bowling artistic picture and inside were the dice, scoring pemcil and miniature score sheets for recording the game progress. Had rules printed inside the cover and Esso etc information on the back. Happy to provide some pics, if you would like them.
'bjacko@hotmail.com'
Cheers
BillJ
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: adelaide (IP Logged)
Date: 20/01/2015 22:42
Hi BillJ
Here's a link to the tin and dice as I remember them.
[www.ebay.co.uk]
We had to make our amusements - er, I mean scorecards - in those days. This was the mid sixties.
A true Aussie version would surely have a third die with a choice selection of sledges...
Adelaide
Here's a link to the tin and dice as I remember them.
[www.ebay.co.uk]
We had to make our amusements - er, I mean scorecards - in those days. This was the mid sixties.
A true Aussie version would surely have a third die with a choice selection of sledges...
Adelaide
Re: Howzat for a Dice Game?
Posted by: Bjacko (IP Logged)
Date: 24/01/2015 00:42
Hello Adelaide
Sledge - not us, must be something we inherited.
Cannot find an image on the web to show you what the game looks like, so will set up an ebay reference and try amd show you that way. This site allows url's to be referenced, but no images to be uploaded. Scheduled for sale at 17.00 on 24/01/2015 AEDT.
I see you just missed out in the 2nd ODI last night, should have been a walk in the park except for the tail end.
Keep in touch.
BillJ
Sledge - not us, must be something we inherited.
Cannot find an image on the web to show you what the game looks like, so will set up an ebay reference and try amd show you that way. This site allows url's to be referenced, but no images to be uploaded. Scheduled for sale at 17.00 on 24/01/2015 AEDT.
I see you just missed out in the 2nd ODI last night, should have been a walk in the park except for the tail end.
Keep in touch.
BillJ
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