Thoughts from the Chron 22nd October
By Chris Gleadell
October 23 2009
Yet again another cracking weekend away in Europe following the Saints. I can remember in times past before we started picking up wins on French soil that that saying used to be tempered with "only spoilt by 80 minutes of rugby" but on this occasion that would be a bit harsh on the efforts the lads put in.
When I finally dragged what was left of mind and body back to blighty on Monday night and gathered my thoughts I rewatched the game against Perpignan on Sky+. Whilst all talk was of referee Nigel Owens control, and I use that word very loosely, of the game it was clear we were beaten by the better side on the night. They had our pack in retreat in the early stages and by the time penalty try had been given the die had been cast both in the result and in Mr Owens handling of the game.
The big question mark over the officiating is whether we were ‘robbed' of a possible bonus point, something that can prove crucial as the competition progresses. In that respect I would say Mr Owens has a very big case to answer. Clearly swayed by the crowd early in proceedings, before it dawned on him that the USAP supporters generally appeal for something at every point of contact, Owens then looked affronted when Dylan Hartley legitimately asked him to clarify his whistle blowing. By the half hour mark, just when Saints looked like they were regrouping and coming back into the game, in my mind he had lost any semblance of refereeing the game fairly.
Someone mentioned afterwards that things were said by Saints players that caused Owens to side with Perpignan in the marginal decisions. If true then not only do some of our players have to watch the backchat in future, whatever the provocation, but also there has to be a very big question mark over the referee's ability to officiated at this level. Any referee worth his salt would rise above it, deal with the outspoken offenders as per the laws then get on with the game in an even manner. As much as I have tried to watch the game objectively, i.e. opening more than my Saints one eye, it looked like all the world that as the game progressed Mr Owens was not only giving Perpignan the marginal decisions but some of the Saints penalties too.
The talk in the local papers on Saturday morning was of citings, mostly imagined, for several Saints players, what a pity we do not have a system when the 31st man on the field can be cited for ineptitude too. Now I am not usually one for slating referees and I know a few of their defenders will be up in arms saying how dare Gleadell say that, it's a thankless job etc etc. Yes that's true but there are standards, standards of which Mr Owens fell a long, long way short of on Friday night and a display the controlling body and Owens himself should take a long hard look at.
The shame was that the officiating dented what could have been a very good game of rugby. There were good passages of play from both sides and Saints were far from disgraced at the home of the current French champions. Chris Ashton's try was top drawer and Brian Mujati's score well crafted by his fellow front rowers out wide. In the end though not enough to secure that valued bonus point. Correct result, arguably the wrong margin of victory.
Although well split up in the ground I would guess around 1200 Saints supporters at the Stade Aime Giral. Having seen Perpignan a few times before I have to say the USAP supporters were a bit more subdued than usual. Whether this was a hangover from their defeat in Treviso I do not know but there seemed little enthusiasm in the town pre-match too. So perhaps not the bearpit I was expecting but we still had to try hard to make ourselves heard above the din. Whilst I was all in praise of the Saints support last week against Munster I do wish that some people on these trips would play their part and get behind the team too or at the very least appreciate that that is what others are there to do. Fair enough you pay your money and you make your choice but we sat behind a group of Saints travellers who not only sat through the game in 80 minutes of almost total silence but who also turned their nose up at those trying to raise the team in their vicinity.
Indeed one couple looked totally insulted because someone tried quite loudly to start an ‘Oh Wendy' near them. I am not sure if these people think it is not the done thing or if they are more worried their neighbours might see them letting their hair down on the telly. Perhaps even there is a danger they might catch something from the great unwashed but they might as well have been at home than at the ground if people genuinely trying to get behind their team offended them so much.
The laughable thing is you just know these people go home and talk of the great atmosphere they encountered. I do not know if they noticed but towards the end of the game the Perpignan drummers included by then one Saint supporter were not only timing ‘When the Saints go marching in' but a fair smattering of USAP supporters were attempting to join in the song too, not their version, the English one. Now if the opposition can do it for your team then surely in some small way you can too, or at the very least put up and shut up and accept that for the vast majority that is what they are there to do. Rant over.
Away from the rugby itself all was sweetness and light for the weekend. Alas the recommended bar Chez Imbernon had changed hands a few weeks before our arrival but there was still a steady stream of Saints along the Quai Vauban all weekend enjoying the sun watching the world go by. Once the sun was down you could not walk past an eaterie, cafe or bar without seeing a Saints shirt within. Late into the night places like the Guinness bar did a roaring trade, when in Rome eh? The townsfolk were warm and welcoming, from the massed pensioners protesting outside the Castillet on Friday morning to the police who turned up to close bars almost 24 hours later. There can be an edge to Perpignan at times but certainly I never encountered anything but friendship all weekend. By luck it was the local wine festival too and many spent three Euro's on the ‘magic' glass that allowed you to sample all on offer in the region in a real carnival atmosphere with local music and dancers.
And it was not just Perpignan itself. At nearby picturesque Collioure you apparently could not move for Saints shirts all weekend. Our group opted for the beach at Argeles on Sunday and a long, long lunch at the harbour side in the autumn sun. I commented at the time that there must be worse places to be and whilst rugby may be central to these weekends away it is good to take in everything else that the areas we visit have to offer. Long may Saints trips abroad continue. Here's to the next one!
Thoughts from the Chron 22nd October
Posted by: ComeOnYouSaints.com (IP Logged)
Date: 23/10/2009 00:27
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Re: Thoughts from the Chron 22nd October
Posted by: Eif Jones (IP Logged)
Date: 23/10/2009 02:28
Oh diddums, lots of paragraphs blaming the referee, I suppose it is what the readership of the Chron want to hear. Do people honestly believe that Owens was affected by the crowd, as if he is not used to the home crowd, even at the Saints, trying to referee the game. From my watching of the tele, it was apparent that the Saints players from the start went beyond what is normally expected in their relationship with the referee, witness the number of 10 metre advances on penalties. The more penalties the Saints conceded, the more the players lost it and the more penalties they conceded etc etc.
Re: Thoughts from the Chron 22nd October
Posted by: St Marlowe (IP Logged)
Date: 23/10/2009 06:46
Good writing Chris - as one who was actually present - ignore the Taffia comments from someone who wasn't, but of course, with a hotline to the ref, knows everything, and that that he doesn't, makes up. No one (inluding you) blames the ref for the outcome, but many have severe doubts as to his handling of the game. But that statement is a severe inconvenience to someone who only skim reads an article, ignores what doesn't fit with his agenda, twists the rest and posts it as his incontrovertible truth.
David L
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
- Live wrong and preposterously
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:10:23:07:16:56 by St Marlowe.
David L
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
- Live wrong and preposterously
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:10:23:07:16:56 by St Marlowe.
Re: Thoughts from the Chron 22nd October
Posted by: Wee Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 23/10/2009 07:10
Thought provoking as ever Chris! I agree the referring fell below the standards expected and refs like players can have a bad day at the office. Im hopeful these sorts of issues are addressed behind the scenes.
Re: Thoughts from the Chron 22nd October
Posted by: Saint Tim (IP Logged)
Date: 23/10/2009 07:28
Eif - what a witless post. I now feel you are so one eyed in support of all things not Saints that I feel for medical reasons you ought to stop coming to/watching our games. After all it must be very bad for your blood pressure.
“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
Benjamin Franklin
Tetleys Block F E143
“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
Benjamin Franklin
Tetleys Block F E143
Re: Thoughts from the Chron 22nd October
Posted by: St Francis (IP Logged)
Date: 23/10/2009 07:40
A good read, and I'd go along with the comments about the officiating. And because the ref was Welsh, you were bound to get some petulant and wrong comments from the 'only one in our village'. Just like the referee's decisions, in fact...
Regarding the support, I don't think you can force people to shout and sing. The crowd around us was fairly alcohol-fuelled, so we made a lot of noise. Perhaps those around you were sober?
Regarding the support, I don't think you can force people to shout and sing. The crowd around us was fairly alcohol-fuelled, so we made a lot of noise. Perhaps those around you were sober?
Re: Thoughts from the Chron 22nd October
Posted by: SAINT_aitch (IP Logged)
Date: 23/10/2009 09:00
Thanks Chris, it was a great weekend (what I remember of it) and you captured the atmosphere well.
It was clear that we were second best on the night with some ball handling errors and poor discipline, but also with helpings of some terrific play.
It was clear that we were second best on the night with some ball handling errors and poor discipline, but also with helpings of some terrific play.
Re: Thoughts from the Chron 22nd October
Posted by: St Francis (IP Logged)
Date: 23/10/2009 09:02
I borrowed ">this link from the offy where Eif is busy defending the indefensible.
Re: Thoughts from the Chron 22nd October
Posted by: Howlin (IP Logged)
Date: 23/10/2009 09:58
As usual you echo my thoughts. St F it's not so much people sitting in silence. They pay their money they take their choice. It is the disdain they appear to have for those that don't. Fair enough if bad language is used or abuse , then I will join in the condemnation; but it does seem a bit rich for some to be irked by a supporter shouting come on you saints !
Any how I still enjoyed it. I'm sure words will occur behind closed doors regards the officiating.
Saint til I die
Any how I still enjoyed it. I'm sure words will occur behind closed doors regards the officiating.
Saint til I die
Re: Thoughts from the Chron 22nd October
Posted by: Ben Johnson (IP Logged)
Date: 23/10/2009 10:41
Thanks Chris. It's worth noting that there are plenty at FG who don't sing much/at all. Each to their own I guess, although since the Munster game things might have changed!
As for the penalty count I'm sure that those who played in that game will have learnt their lesson regarding discipline and will be stronger for it.
Eif, FYI the cost of laser eye surgery has fallen dramatically in recent years...
...think about it.
Come On You Saints
As for the penalty count I'm sure that those who played in that game will have learnt their lesson regarding discipline and will be stronger for it.
Eif, FYI the cost of laser eye surgery has fallen dramatically in recent years...
...think about it.
Come On You Saints
Re: Thoughts from the Chron 22nd October
Posted by: ChrisG (IP Logged)
Date: 23/10/2009 11:44
As Howlin says StF it was those who chose to turn their nose up at those around supporting the team that was the main target for my barb. As I said pay your money, take your choice but also let others support the team as they see fit as they've paid exactly the same as you.
I'm not so sure that if the support all turned up sober there would be total silence all round?
And Eif if some Perpignan supporters were questioning the referee afterwards, as they were, did you think it was 'ah diddums' on their part too?
I'm not so sure that if the support all turned up sober there would be total silence all round?
And Eif if some Perpignan supporters were questioning the referee afterwards, as they were, did you think it was 'ah diddums' on their part too?
Re: Thoughts from the Chron 22nd October
Posted by: Paul Flatt (IP Logged)
Date: 23/10/2009 11:44
There's no eye in 'me'.
Not even one-eyed me.
"Your days are numbered. Use them to throw open the windows of your soul to the sun. If you do not, the sun will soon set, and you with it."
-- Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor 161-180 A.D.
Not even one-eyed me.
"Your days are numbered. Use them to throw open the windows of your soul to the sun. If you do not, the sun will soon set, and you with it."
-- Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor 161-180 A.D.
Re: Thoughts from the Chron 22nd October
Posted by: St Francis (IP Logged)
Date: 24/10/2009 09:23
Howlin, Chris - I see what you're saying... yes, I can imagine disdainful looks from some of the Saints supporters I have come across. Not for me to point fingers, but some of the people on past club trips did have an air of seniority (in terms of 'we've been supporting Saints the longest') about them. But it takes all sorts.
Re: Thoughts from the Chron 22nd October
Posted by: Saint Tim (IP Logged)
Date: 24/10/2009 11:10
I was sitting in the same row as Chris and I have never seen a quieter set of Saints supporters on tour. Was most odd.
“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
Benjamin Franklin
Tetleys Block F E143
“Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
Benjamin Franklin
Tetleys Block F E143
Re: Thoughts from the Chron 22nd October
Posted by: Realist2 (IP Logged)
Date: 24/10/2009 12:08
Quote:ChrisG
And Eif if some Perpignan supporters were questioning the referee afterwards, as they were, did you think it was 'ah diddums' on their part too?
I think you are asking the impossible!
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