Recruitment continues
By Grockle et al
February 14 2015
The first plans for the 2015 campaign seem to be being drawn up by Somerset under the new direction of Matthew Maynard. Signings are being announced, building plans are continuing a pace and players are being shown in various levels of dress and undress seem to be going through the preparations for what might be captain Marcus Trescothick's last hurrah in the maroon grey and black.
The skeleton of the new 'Stragglers Pavilion' as I am going to call it for want of anything better (and what could be better I ask you?) is overlooking the preparation for our 2015 onslaught on the Championship trophy from the edge of the new international boundary at the County Ground in Taunton.
The losses from the ranks of 2014 are being replaced, the young recruits of the past couple of years are looking a little more like veterans and the squad has a newish look about it as the positions are filled with new faces taking on new roles with new hopes of success.
People are quite rightly worrieed about the loss of Nick Compton as he moves back to The 'Sex and the "Smoke" and the move of Alviro Petersen to Lacashire after his retirement from the Saffers. No one seems particularly bothered by the non arrival of the other Pietersen. But the injury worries about the mighty Craig Kieswetter have also left gaps in our batting line-up for the coming summer. Some still mourn the loss of Jos but he wouldn't have been anywhere near us for most of the season even if he hadn't decided to go and try his luck with a second division county. Ahh well.
So... do we lack up front firepower? Well I'd remind people that our much vaunted batting line-up that most counties would 'kill for' hasn't exactly torn apart other county bowling attacks in the last few years. The reason we have relied so heavily on the 'they shall not pass' skills of the stubborn Compo was because other batsmen have been blown away wwith all the resistance of tissue paper on more than one occasion. One way to minimise the loss of Nick is for the rest of the top five to bat like they are top five.
Marcus will lead the line while there iis first class blood in his body. Many are asking if this is the last time he will do so, others question whether his boody can take the strain, whether the hand eye co-ordination is what it was, whether his captaincy is strong enough for the fray. I'll simply ask... would you rather he was battiing for us or facing us? If there is a Trescothick on the first team lists I personallly would rather he was wearing Somerset colours. If he has shot his last bolt then it is up to the man hiimself to admit that and his Director to make the change. Is MM the man to so that? Well as a Somerset suppporter I hope he doesn't have to.
Who will partner the captain? Johann Myburgh did little wrong in a season of suprises for the man. I have no problem with that as a starting partnership. Alex Barrow may be looking there but if he is the first choice keeper will it be too much? If James Reagan makes a case for the gloves or CK is back early who knows? Lewls Gregory will also be looking to cement his place in the side. His improvement in the batting including the marvellous record breaking partnership he had with James Hildreth (albeit in the shorter format) suggests he may be up to that challenge as well and the strengthening of the middle order may mean a move up the order.
What of Hildreth? The perennial, but highly talented, under achieve could be the key to a Somerset drive in the longer format. Less single 3 figure performances and more consistent plus 50 scores could put us in good positions in games more often. Is his place at number 4 secure? One would assume that Tom Abell as the rising star is going to take one of the five top slots when available from university and the Aussie/Dutchman Tom Cooper has been brought in to put some steel in that early middle order as well.
What of Peter Trego? Will the bowling demands on him decrease and the batting demands rise? Is he going to be looking to add that big bat impetus that Craig K will not be around for? The bolstering of the middle order by the welcome signing of Jim Allenby suggests he will nnot be moviing backwards in the order but forwards. Abdur Rehman's presence for the whole season also gives extra batting prowess at the tail along with the teeth of Thomas and either Overton. It's an exciting line-up offering much with quite a few 'what ifs' while still worrying many because of the lack of back-up and depth should injury hit. We've already mentioned a possible role for Reagan, could there be a batting position for the ever present but never consolidating Max Waller?
The bowling aspect of the longer format Somerset side is a little more of a puzzle. With the signing of a third (highly effective) spinner in Rehman, have we commited to a two spin attack where ever possible? Certainly our spin attack last year was only mildly effective given the injury to George Dockrell and the strange Nosworthy selection policy in referennce to Jack Leach. Abdur's CC1 record and his batting skills suggest he will play as the first choice. George will be involved in World Cup qualifying tournaments in the summer (definitely one in his homeland in July where he may come up against the might of Oman) so the plan may be to rotate him with Jack when possible as a partner for the Internnational.
The seam attack to me is more of a worry. Craig Overton may be slow out of the blocks despite the good news about the injury recovery preseently doing the rounds. How many significant games (you note I don't say seasons) does Alfonso have left in him? Some are not yet convinced that Tim Groenewald is a four day bowler of stature -he had limited chances to show his skills last year and may have to hit the ground running in 2015 with considerable expections on his back. The personally mystifying decision to send our third Craig on loan for the season makes the problems worse. Is Jamie Overton ready to resume his stuttering career? Is Adam Dibble ready to actually start his? Two spinnners may not be an option but rather a strategy with no alternative, especially if injury hits. Lewis Gregory may be the one to pin hopes on. We need 40 wickets from four of these guys at least unless we are putting a lot of hope in the slow men. Pete may very well have to hold the line again because bowling the other side out twice seems far more of a problem to me that making enough runs.
I'll look at the short format later - it suggests once again that we may have more luck there than in the ever elusive Championship. But where is a supporters life without hope? I personally have more this year than last. Hope it isn't the quick evaporating April type.
Recruitment continues
Posted by: Grockles.com (IP Logged)
Date: 14/02/2015 11:15
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:03:21:04:13:08 by Grockle.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:03:21:04:13:08 by Grockle.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 15/02/2015 14:13
Apologies for the downtime everyone. A return to the UK and a family bereavement made access to consistent wifi and time to update a bit of problem. But we're up and running again.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 15/02/2015 14:13
One thing is for certain, and that is that we shall start every CC match with eleven players walking out onto the field of play, even if we have to pull out one or two 'unknowns' from the beer tent in order to make up our number.
Now that's a thought.
Maybe, Josh Davey will fight his way into contention for a CC place?
Now that's a thought.
Maybe, Josh Davey will fight his way into contention for a CC place?
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 15/02/2015 14:20
Well the World Cup may give him that opportunity to impress his way into team discussions at least. We aren't exactly heaving with certain seam options presently.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
Date: 15/02/2015 14:22
Well, there's no point having a 24 year old on the staff if you're never going to pick him.
A big World Cup for JD, A couple of 50's at number 8- and a few 3 or 4 wicket hauls. and he'll be in business.
A big World Cup for JD, A couple of 50's at number 8- and a few 3 or 4 wicket hauls. and he'll be in business.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 15/02/2015 14:24
Seeing the reference above about short form games got me to thinking about the one recruit that is presumably definitely still to come - that of a second overseas player for T20.
I tend to think that our best strategy may be to try to produce dry, turning tracks and to major in spin. If our groundstaff think that they have a good chance of being able to do that, then we could even sign a second spin - such as maybe Ravinchandran Ashwin, as our second overseas player.
One could then with the following team, intended to put the opposition into a spin:
Trego
Allenby (c)
Cooper
Hildreth
Barrow (w)
Myburgh
Ashwin
Gregory
Rehman
Waller
Leach
3 seam options, plus up to 5 spin options (if one includes Myburgh).
It's certainly not a fearsome batting line-up but could make up for that in bowling, particularly if we can produce the right type of pitches.
If Kieswetter were to be available, then the side would look quite a lot stronger, as Myburgh would drop out, with CK opening with Allenby at Pete batting at 3, with Cooper and Hildreth each moving down a place.
Personally, I'd prefer that Alf concentrate on the red ball stuff and I don't actually think we have too many great seam options for T20 anyway - Craig O got plenty of tap last year, I think TG would most likely go round the park, Jamie O, I guess, could be a wild-card. So I think a very spin heavy line-up could pay dividends.
I tend to think that our best strategy may be to try to produce dry, turning tracks and to major in spin. If our groundstaff think that they have a good chance of being able to do that, then we could even sign a second spin - such as maybe Ravinchandran Ashwin, as our second overseas player.
One could then with the following team, intended to put the opposition into a spin:
Trego
Allenby (c)
Cooper
Hildreth
Barrow (w)
Myburgh
Ashwin
Gregory
Rehman
Waller
Leach
3 seam options, plus up to 5 spin options (if one includes Myburgh).
It's certainly not a fearsome batting line-up but could make up for that in bowling, particularly if we can produce the right type of pitches.
If Kieswetter were to be available, then the side would look quite a lot stronger, as Myburgh would drop out, with CK opening with Allenby at Pete batting at 3, with Cooper and Hildreth each moving down a place.
Personally, I'd prefer that Alf concentrate on the red ball stuff and I don't actually think we have too many great seam options for T20 anyway - Craig O got plenty of tap last year, I think TG would most likely go round the park, Jamie O, I guess, could be a wild-card. So I think a very spin heavy line-up could pay dividends.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 15/02/2015 14:31
We don't always take our second. It could also be Rehman as I don't think we can play 3 can we?
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 15/02/2015 14:33
Hasn't Sohail Tanvir signed for T20?
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Shepton Paul 2 (IP Logged)
Date: 15/02/2015 14:53
Yes, announced Friday - Tanvir is our second overseas for T20.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: cricketjerry-mouse (IP Logged)
Date: 15/02/2015 19:15
Left-arm seamer Sohail Tanvir`s signing has been all over the papers, radio, cricinfo, and the Somerset and BBC websites since Thursday.
He held the T20 world bowling record of 6-14 in the IPL until our own Arul Suppiah achieved even better figures against Glamorgan three or four years ago. He is available throughout the competition, can turn his hand to left-arm spin if needed, and is a useful hitter at the back end of the order.
He held the T20 world bowling record of 6-14 in the IPL until our own Arul Suppiah achieved even better figures against Glamorgan three or four years ago. He is available throughout the competition, can turn his hand to left-arm spin if needed, and is a useful hitter at the back end of the order.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Scrumper (IP Logged)
Date: 15/02/2015 20:11
So hail the great man!
Actually I'd rather have a batsman T20 signing, after all he can only bowl 4 overs. Batsmen are more likely to win you the game.
Actually I'd rather have a batsman T20 signing, after all he can only bowl 4 overs. Batsmen are more likely to win you the game.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: hantssabre (IP Logged)
Date: 15/02/2015 20:38
Can't say I was very impressed with Tanvir when he played for Hampshire 2 seasons ago. Bowls off the wrong foot so not a pretty sight to watch and if I remember correctly, not great in the field or with the bat!
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Following on (IP Logged)
Date: 15/02/2015 21:12
Is he available for the whole season? He would appear to have signed for St Kitts and Nevis
[cplt20.com]
So available for the first seven games?
[cplt20.com]
So available for the first seven games?
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 15/02/2015 22:52
Someone else mentioned that. Maybe just the 7... I'm happy Rehman is in. Do people think we don't have enough batsmen for the short stuff? I'd like Craig back if possible but really?
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: RadstockRob (IP Logged)
Date: 15/02/2015 23:43
wsmfan's report of AGM says
"Waiting for Feb5 Caribbean auction then we'll try and recruit 2nd overseas player"
One can only assume that if Tanvir is contracted to CPL we couldn't find anybody suitable who wasn't.
"Waiting for Feb5 Caribbean auction then we'll try and recruit 2nd overseas player"
One can only assume that if Tanvir is contracted to CPL we couldn't find anybody suitable who wasn't.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 16/02/2015 00:22
Yep. Looks like a reason.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 16/02/2015 08:29
If we dropped our insistence on getting somebody NOT in the CPL, then I cannot understand why we came back with such an apparently low impact player as Tanvir? There must be loads of better players available that would also only be available for the first 7 games before clearing off to the CPL?
Like Hantssabre, I fear that Tanvir will be an absolute liability in the field - making Richard Levi look athletic, and I fear that he may also be well past his best with the ball - I think he's now 36?
Edited to say that he's only 30, I mis-read his cricinfo entry.
But, still, I'm surprised if he was really the best we could do UNLESS we were only considering those not bought up by the CPL. I note (and this time I've read cricinfo correctly!) that in his most recent international games - one a 50 over vs NZ, the other a T20 vs NZ, Tanvir was, on each occasion, the most expensive seam bowler in the match (on either side).
According to a comment from a Hants fan on the bottom of the cricinfo article about Tanvir signing, he also apparently leaked 8.68 runs per over for Hants in last year's domestic T2 competition - not an impressive figure.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:02:16:10:19:42 by AGod.
Like Hantssabre, I fear that Tanvir will be an absolute liability in the field - making Richard Levi look athletic, and I fear that he may also be well past his best with the ball - I think he's now 36?
Edited to say that he's only 30, I mis-read his cricinfo entry.
But, still, I'm surprised if he was really the best we could do UNLESS we were only considering those not bought up by the CPL. I note (and this time I've read cricinfo correctly!) that in his most recent international games - one a 50 over vs NZ, the other a T20 vs NZ, Tanvir was, on each occasion, the most expensive seam bowler in the match (on either side).
According to a comment from a Hants fan on the bottom of the cricinfo article about Tanvir signing, he also apparently leaked 8.68 runs per over for Hants in last year's domestic T2 competition - not an impressive figure.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:02:16:10:19:42 by AGod.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 16/02/2015 08:37
Here's a question for Matt Maynard and the Somerset hierarchy:
What do Somerset need to do to extract the level of performance, in short form cricket, from George Dockrell, that he seems to produce regularly for Ireland? (see World Cup thread for figures for them).
And let's be clear - George's Ireland figures are not only a product of the games vs Associate members. He gets rid of decent batsmen - like Tendulkar (in the last world cup) and Gayle and Samuels (yesterday). I think he's yet to have a poor tournament for Ireland?
The man obviously has plenty of talent. And yet we've got little out of him in short format stuff over the past couple of years.. In fact, at the moment, in short form stuff he's the cricketing equivalent of David Kelly (a football striker who scored oodles of international goals but did relatively little in club football)
Why? Is/was he managed better (whether on and/or off the field) by Ireland? If so, maybe a presumed tandem (presumed by me) of Maynard and Allenby can get more out of him than Nosworthy/Tresco did?
Does he simply feel more comfortable with the Irish? (and if so, what can MM and co do to make him feel more comfortable as a member of the SCCC short form sides?)
Surely, given that only half of our games are played at Taunton, it can't simply be a product of 'having to bowl at Taunton'?
It is my fervent hope that Somerset are able to find the key to getting GD to perform for SCCC in the way that he does for Ireland.
What do Somerset need to do to extract the level of performance, in short form cricket, from George Dockrell, that he seems to produce regularly for Ireland? (see World Cup thread for figures for them).
And let's be clear - George's Ireland figures are not only a product of the games vs Associate members. He gets rid of decent batsmen - like Tendulkar (in the last world cup) and Gayle and Samuels (yesterday). I think he's yet to have a poor tournament for Ireland?
The man obviously has plenty of talent. And yet we've got little out of him in short format stuff over the past couple of years.. In fact, at the moment, in short form stuff he's the cricketing equivalent of David Kelly (a football striker who scored oodles of international goals but did relatively little in club football)
Why? Is/was he managed better (whether on and/or off the field) by Ireland? If so, maybe a presumed tandem (presumed by me) of Maynard and Allenby can get more out of him than Nosworthy/Tresco did?
Does he simply feel more comfortable with the Irish? (and if so, what can MM and co do to make him feel more comfortable as a member of the SCCC short form sides?)
Surely, given that only half of our games are played at Taunton, it can't simply be a product of 'having to bowl at Taunton'?
It is my fervent hope that Somerset are able to find the key to getting GD to perform for SCCC in the way that he does for Ireland.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: brt1919 (IP Logged)
Date: 17/02/2015 13:10
Without knowing who's available with all the other competitons, I did have a hope that we might have got someone like Pollard for part of the T20, & yes I know many here would behead me for thinking it, but KP too. I'm in London so tend to watch more away matches but either of those two & I'd be booking a lot of Friday's off work to drive to Taunton just for a T20 game rather than needing to link in with a weekend match to make it so appealing
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 17/02/2015 13:47
One certainly cannot accuse Somerset of going with signings calculated mainly to put numbers on the gate, in terms of the two overseas for T20 this year.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Shepton Paul 2 (IP Logged)
Date: 17/02/2015 13:53
Well, when I read it last week, I thought Tanvir was a good signing for the T20: good record, experienced bowler, left arm variation, decent late order batter (bearing in mind that's not our top priority). But you lot have all decided it's not so good after all. Ho hum.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Following on (IP Logged)
Date: 17/02/2015 14:14
This is a "in Matt we trust" moment!
He is the one who has worked with Sohail Tanvir in the CPL last year, when "he was our star performer." His words not mine.
Good enough for me!
He is the one who has worked with Sohail Tanvir in the CPL last year, when "he was our star performer." His words not mine.
Good enough for me!
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 17/02/2015 14:53
It's common practice for Coaches to recruit people that they have worked with before (as with Nosworthy recruiting Alviro Petersen). However, I'm not convinced that it's always a good idea as I think sometimes familiarity leads to signing players who are not the best available option.
Tanvir might have done well for the St Lucia Zouks, but he was very expensive for Hampshire in last year's domestic T20 (apparently 8.68 runs per over which equates to an average of about 4 overs for 35) and it is probably more likely that results from our domestic T20 are a better predictor of what is likely to happen in our domestic T20 than results from the West Indian competition.
Most tracks that I have seen (on coverage of Tests or ODIs or T20Is from the West Indies) over at least the past decade from the West Indies, have tended to be really slow and sticky and thus favour bowlers. Taunton tends to be a rather different kettle of fish!
The info contained here is not 100% complete (I guess a shoddy website is typical of the organisation of domestic cricket in the West Indies) but the vast majority of the scores are on the low side, which I think supports the notion that conditions tend to favour the bowlers in their competition:
[www.cplt20cricket.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:02:17:14:59:10 by AGod.
Tanvir might have done well for the St Lucia Zouks, but he was very expensive for Hampshire in last year's domestic T20 (apparently 8.68 runs per over which equates to an average of about 4 overs for 35) and it is probably more likely that results from our domestic T20 are a better predictor of what is likely to happen in our domestic T20 than results from the West Indian competition.
Most tracks that I have seen (on coverage of Tests or ODIs or T20Is from the West Indies) over at least the past decade from the West Indies, have tended to be really slow and sticky and thus favour bowlers. Taunton tends to be a rather different kettle of fish!
The info contained here is not 100% complete (I guess a shoddy website is typical of the organisation of domestic cricket in the West Indies) but the vast majority of the scores are on the low side, which I think supports the notion that conditions tend to favour the bowlers in their competition:
[www.cplt20cricket.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:02:17:14:59:10 by AGod.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2015 02:36
Well there we go then. No point in him turning up it seems.
Perish the thought that we put any faith in the man we have chosen to direct our cricket and give a professional cricketing choice the chance to at least bowl a ball before we consign him to the domestic T20 scrapheap. Ahh well never mind, let's hope he hasn't put ink to paper and there is time to look again for the much better option available
Perish the thought that we put any faith in the man we have chosen to direct our cricket and give a professional cricketing choice the chance to at least bowl a ball before we consign him to the domestic T20 scrapheap. Ahh well never mind, let's hope he hasn't put ink to paper and there is time to look again for the much better option available
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2015 07:30
Far more logical, IMO, to look at each decision on a case-by-case basis rather than automatically assume that any given decision by people in charge will be either right or wrong. After all, we know that nobody ever gets all of their decisions right, do they?
So far, MM has made two recruitment decisions - Tom Cooper, who I think will probably be quite a good signing (and, regardless, we most definitely needed to sign a new batsman) and Sohail Tanvir who I do not think will prove a good signing (and who fills a position - another seamer, that I'm not that convinced that we needed anyway).
In addition, we are led to believe that MM has decided to change one-day Captain, which I would certainly support.
So that would be 2 decisions, so far, that I suspect will prove good ones and one that I suspect will not.
When he played for Hampshire, Tanvir's figures were easily the worst of any of their T20 bowlers. He took only 9 wickets and went for 8.68 per over (very nearly 1 run per over more than Hampshire's next most expensive bowler).
So far, MM has made two recruitment decisions - Tom Cooper, who I think will probably be quite a good signing (and, regardless, we most definitely needed to sign a new batsman) and Sohail Tanvir who I do not think will prove a good signing (and who fills a position - another seamer, that I'm not that convinced that we needed anyway).
In addition, we are led to believe that MM has decided to change one-day Captain, which I would certainly support.
So that would be 2 decisions, so far, that I suspect will prove good ones and one that I suspect will not.
When he played for Hampshire, Tanvir's figures were easily the worst of any of their T20 bowlers. He took only 9 wickets and went for 8.68 per over (very nearly 1 run per over more than Hampshire's next most expensive bowler).
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2015 07:35
[www.ecb.co.uk]
Tanvir 8.68 runs per over conceded for Hants. Nobody else went for more than 8. Chris Wood was next worst at 7.79 runs per over. Obviously, being more expensive than anyone else is not what is wanted from the overseas pro.
Before anyone says "He was the death bowler," I would point out that he may have been a death bowler, but that unless the laws have changed, he would not have been allowed to bowl from both ends, so it would be more accurate to say he was a death bowler.
Also, if the defence is that he was bowling at the death with the notion being that an all-out slog would be on during those overs, then his total of 9 wickets is not very impressive as bowlers who are bowling during slogs ought to be able to pick up more than their fair share of wickets, even if going around the park.
Finally, if you compare Tanvir's figures with our figures for the same season, you will see that despite (presumably) playing half of their games at Taunton with the short boundaries etc, our death bowlers did not go for 8.68 runs per over.
[www.ecb.co.uk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:02:18:07:37:46 by AGod.
Tanvir 8.68 runs per over conceded for Hants. Nobody else went for more than 8. Chris Wood was next worst at 7.79 runs per over. Obviously, being more expensive than anyone else is not what is wanted from the overseas pro.
Before anyone says "He was the death bowler," I would point out that he may have been a death bowler, but that unless the laws have changed, he would not have been allowed to bowl from both ends, so it would be more accurate to say he was a death bowler.
Also, if the defence is that he was bowling at the death with the notion being that an all-out slog would be on during those overs, then his total of 9 wickets is not very impressive as bowlers who are bowling during slogs ought to be able to pick up more than their fair share of wickets, even if going around the park.
Finally, if you compare Tanvir's figures with our figures for the same season, you will see that despite (presumably) playing half of their games at Taunton with the short boundaries etc, our death bowlers did not go for 8.68 runs per over.
[www.ecb.co.uk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:02:18:07:37:46 by AGod.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Shepton Paul 2 (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2015 09:43
This is brilliant, even by your usual standards AG, setting up straw men and then arguing against yourself. Very entertaining, thank you for making me laugh this morning.
#givetheguyachance
#givetheguyachance
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2015 11:10
Wasn't arguing against myself at all.
And there is no 'straw man,' unless you are saying that Tanvir is only a putative signing as opposed to a real one that Somerset have made..
And there is no 'straw man,' unless you are saying that Tanvir is only a putative signing as opposed to a real one that Somerset have made..
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: 9th brother Dredge (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2015 16:30
Welcome to the club, Sohail. AGod, your pretty scathing assessment of Tanvir is based on a small statistical sample from over 18 months ago. For balance, let's not forget that Sohail has represented his country in all forms of the game, playing over 100 international matches. He last represented Pakistan in both ODI and 20-20 cricket, just two months ago. Pakistan is renowned for being very well stocked with bowlers. Yes, he may not have excelled in a short spell with Hampshire back in 2013, but that didn't stop them from reaching finals day whilst he was with them and, as has been previously mentioned, he was a standout performer in last year's Caribbean Premier League, topping both the batting and bowling averages (189 runs at 37.8 with a strike rate of a very healthy 181.73; 7 wickets at 29.28 with an economy rate of a miserly 6.47). I'm sure he'll be a good addition to our T20 side, my biggest concern being that he is not going to be available for most of the second half of the competition.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2015 16:46
Yes, Mr Dredge, you are indeed correct that he last represented his country in both ODI and T20 cricket "just two months ago." And, as I've already said, he was the most expensive seam bowler on either side in those two contests as well...
I also think that as well as being ordinary with the ball, he is likely to prove a liability in the field.
As was shown from the link that I posted, it seemed that the scores in the CPL seem to be on the (very) low side, such that an economy rate of 6.47, which would be outstanding in our domestic T20 contest looks somewhat different in the context of games where a number of teams were totalling 100-120!!! These scores would be in keeping with what I would expect from slow, low, dead West Indian surfaces.
p.s. Mr Dredge - Mr Tanvir certainly did not top the bowling averages for the CPL. He was nowhere remotely close to doing so. In fact, Mr Tanvir had the 29th best bowling average! That placed him 29th out of 47 people that had any bowling average at all. In other words, he was in the bottom half of all performers in that league, by average.
[www.toppcricket.com]
Perhaps you took a quick glance and meant that he had the lowest economy rate, based on that quick glance? I haven't looked at all the entries yet, but he certainly didn't have the best economy rate, because Samuel Badree conceded a ridiculously good 4.4 something runs per over! I don't know "what," Tanvir bowled in the CPL. CJM mentioned that he, apparently, can bowl left-arm spin when necessary. Anybody with a brain that is capable of bowling both seam and spin would almost certainly bowl quite a lot of spin in the West Indies, because conditions are loaded in favour of spin (just take a look at the economy rates for spinners in the CPL!)
Finally, if one adds Tanvir's 9 games for Hants to the 9 games for the Zouks to create a recent sample size of 18 games, then his overall average for those 18 games would have been worse than 29 (as he averaged 29.something in both stints). 29 is NOT a good bowling average in T20 cricket.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2015:02:18:17:17:09 by AGod.
I also think that as well as being ordinary with the ball, he is likely to prove a liability in the field.
As was shown from the link that I posted, it seemed that the scores in the CPL seem to be on the (very) low side, such that an economy rate of 6.47, which would be outstanding in our domestic T20 contest looks somewhat different in the context of games where a number of teams were totalling 100-120!!! These scores would be in keeping with what I would expect from slow, low, dead West Indian surfaces.
p.s. Mr Dredge - Mr Tanvir certainly did not top the bowling averages for the CPL. He was nowhere remotely close to doing so. In fact, Mr Tanvir had the 29th best bowling average! That placed him 29th out of 47 people that had any bowling average at all. In other words, he was in the bottom half of all performers in that league, by average.
[www.toppcricket.com]
Perhaps you took a quick glance and meant that he had the lowest economy rate, based on that quick glance? I haven't looked at all the entries yet, but he certainly didn't have the best economy rate, because Samuel Badree conceded a ridiculously good 4.4 something runs per over! I don't know "what," Tanvir bowled in the CPL. CJM mentioned that he, apparently, can bowl left-arm spin when necessary. Anybody with a brain that is capable of bowling both seam and spin would almost certainly bowl quite a lot of spin in the West Indies, because conditions are loaded in favour of spin (just take a look at the economy rates for spinners in the CPL!)
Finally, if one adds Tanvir's 9 games for Hants to the 9 games for the Zouks to create a recent sample size of 18 games, then his overall average for those 18 games would have been worse than 29 (as he averaged 29.something in both stints). 29 is NOT a good bowling average in T20 cricket.
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2015:02:18:17:17:09 by AGod.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Railboy (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2015 16:47
Either someone was playing very fast and loose with the term "exciting" or a particular signing has failed to come off.
My issue with the Tanvir signing is the short termism of it. He may help get us out of the group stage and then be gone. Would rather have has Meschede doing the job to be honest.
In fact, bearing in mind James Harris played against us for both Glamorgan and the Sex in the same week, perhaps Mesh can play for us both on the ocaisons fixtures don't clash.
My issue with the Tanvir signing is the short termism of it. He may help get us out of the group stage and then be gone. Would rather have has Meschede doing the job to be honest.
In fact, bearing in mind James Harris played against us for both Glamorgan and the Sex in the same week, perhaps Mesh can play for us both on the ocaisons fixtures don't clash.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2015 16:59
I suspect Harris was loaned from the Sex to the Welshmen after our game with Middx?
In which case, in the absence of any "cup-tying," regulations, there would be no reason why Harris should not have done that.
But a player playing for the club to which he is on loan and then playing for his parent club, without the parent having revoked the loan would be a different kettle of fish.
In which case, in the absence of any "cup-tying," regulations, there would be no reason why Harris should not have done that.
But a player playing for the club to which he is on loan and then playing for his parent club, without the parent having revoked the loan would be a different kettle of fish.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Railboy (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2015 17:06
No, he was loaned to the Welsh before our game, then went back to Middlesex for our game against them and then I believe, back to Glamorgan again! I was rather tongue in cheek highlighting the lack of any worthwhile eligibilty regulations in our competitions. I still smart about the Aussie (name forgotten) whose one and only innings for Yorkshire was the ton he scored in a Lords final against us
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2015 17:10
Wow!!
You are referring to Mr M T G Elliot, I believe.
I still smart about the absurd number of lbw appeals from Jonah that were turned down vs M P useless pundit Vaughan - IMO, a number of them were more than a little adjacent before the umpire finally relented..
You are referring to Mr M T G Elliot, I believe.
I still smart about the absurd number of lbw appeals from Jonah that were turned down vs M P useless pundit Vaughan - IMO, a number of them were more than a little adjacent before the umpire finally relented..
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Railboy (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2015 19:21
Elliot! That's the dude. Landed on Thursday, back on the plane monday, reportedly £30 grand better off. Never set foot out of London let alone in Yorkshire.
And yes, I remember all the appeals and I also remember the speed of finger that sent Jamie Cox and Mike Burns on their way though from within the ground i couldn't judge the validity of any of them and I was too incensed by Elliot's one man show to watch any highlights!
And yes, I remember all the appeals and I also remember the speed of finger that sent Jamie Cox and Mike Burns on their way though from within the ground i couldn't judge the validity of any of them and I was too incensed by Elliot's one man show to watch any highlights!
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Shepton Paul 2 (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2015 20:01
Don't think you understand the term 'straw man' AG. You state a case, which you're quite entitled to do even if you're a bit over the top and do rather go on about it, then come up with potential arguments against your case (points which nobody has raised), then you shoot them down...then, in your later posts today, you carry on doing so. A magnificent effort - ever considered setting up a one-man TV station or debating club?
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2015 20:22
...and do rather go on about it...
Come on, SP, you're only interested in coining an entry for the Oxford Encyclopedia of Understatements.
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Come on, SP, you're only interested in coining an entry for the Oxford Encyclopedia of Understatements.
LoL
Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2015 21:04
Quote:Railboy
Elliot! That's the dude. Landed on Thursday, back on the plane monday, reportedly £30 grand better off. Never set foot out of London let alone in Yorkshire.
And yes, I remember all the appeals and I also remember the speed of finger that sent Jamie Cox and Mike Burns on their way though from within the ground i couldn't judge the validity of any of them and I was too incensed by Elliot's one man show to watch any highlights!
I think that you do Matthew Elliott a bit of dis - service there, Railboy.
He played about half a dozen List 'A' matches for Yorkshire that year (including some in Yorkshire).
Not many, I agree, but more than just the one against Somerset.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Shepton Paul 2 (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2015 21:22
Did he not play for them earlier in the summer, then flew in for the final?
Never let the truth get in the way of a good rant
Never let the truth get in the way of a good rant
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2015 22:02
No, SP, nothing to do with "Straw man," I'm afraid.
It's just anticipating what others would have said.
It's just anticipating what others would have said.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: 9th brother Dredge (IP Logged)
Date: 18/02/2015 22:17
AGod, my mistake. It should have read that he topped the batting and bowling averages for his side in the Caribbean T20, not the overall averages. Look, it is possible to argue the toss over his recent record but it is undeniable that he wouldn't have had the career he's had without being a talented player. Let's hope MM gets the best out of him like he did in the Caribbean T20. Best way to judge him is on what he does in a Somerset shirt.
Our T20 side is looking a bit light batting-wise, but I think we're possibly even over-stocked bowling-wise with Alfie, Lewis and Tanvir our strike/death bowlers, excellent spin options with Rehmann, Dockers, Waller and Leach, with Craig Overton, Groeneweld, Trego and Josh Davey to add to the mix. If Tres doesn't play, how are we going to line up batting-wise? I reckon that of our best XI, 9 places are nailed down....
Allenby
Abell/Myburgh/Tres
Tregs
Cooper
Hildreth
Barrow
Gregory
COverton/Davey/Dockrell/Waller/Groeneweld
Tanvir
Alfie
Rehmann
So plenty of options in the bowling but whatever way I manipulate it, the batting doesn't look great.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:02:18:22:25:20 by 9th brother Dredge.
Our T20 side is looking a bit light batting-wise, but I think we're possibly even over-stocked bowling-wise with Alfie, Lewis and Tanvir our strike/death bowlers, excellent spin options with Rehmann, Dockers, Waller and Leach, with Craig Overton, Groeneweld, Trego and Josh Davey to add to the mix. If Tres doesn't play, how are we going to line up batting-wise? I reckon that of our best XI, 9 places are nailed down....
Allenby
Abell/Myburgh/Tres
Tregs
Cooper
Hildreth
Barrow
Gregory
COverton/Davey/Dockrell/Waller/Groeneweld
Tanvir
Alfie
Rehmann
So plenty of options in the bowling but whatever way I manipulate it, the batting doesn't look great.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:02:18:22:25:20 by 9th brother Dredge.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 19/02/2015 09:54
I think Allenby may, depending on conditions, be a significant bowling option in short form cricket (both forms).
Whilst I accept that Tanvir seems to have had a good time batting for St Lucia in the CPL, I also think you have him in round about the right place in that batting line-up as he bats quite low down for Pakistan. No idea where he batted for St Lucia.
But I think you've hit the nail on the head - that we have rather more bowling options than we do good batting ones. And Sohail's success with the bat in the CPL notwithstanding, he has been regarded in his career as more of a bowler than a batsman. A bowler that bats, if you like.
I also think we are short on the batting front. The line-up above, as you correctly say, cannot really be made to look impressive from a batting stand-point unless one of the following happens:
a) Craig Kieswetter becomes available to insert into it.
b) Tom Abell proves to be a major force in T20 (I've no idea what his limited overs prowess is like?).
c) Trescothick enjoys what would need to be a huge rebound from his awful T20 form of last season. It's certainly true that Tresco managed a CC rebound from his 2013 season - BUT the difference in Tresco's game from 2014 vs 2013 was that he re-discovered his ability to bat long and make tons. It wasn't that his early vulnerability disappeared. Batting long is obviously a non-factor in T20.
or
d) Lewis Gregory and/or Craig Overton develop into a major force with the bat in T20
Of the above scenarios, I would think that scenario a) is actually the most likely.
A top four of Allenby, Kies, Pete and Cooper should be pretty powerful.
But if scenario a) does not happen?
Scenarios b, c and d are all possible, and it's even possible that more than one of those three scenarios (or the overall four) could come off.
However, I personally suspect that none of scenarios b, c and d will occur and option a) is in the hands of medical progress/Kieswetter's willingness (or lack thereof) to get on with it prior to a 100% recovery in his eyesight. Personally, I would think that, having received significant re-assurance (from more than one source) as to his prognosis, CK may end up deciding to get on with his career at some point prior to things being absolutely 100%.. That's unless specialists have told him that doing so would somehow risk his recovery.*
* It is surely inevitable that he will never again bat (and possibly) keep (?) without a helmet with the full double visor that protects the eyes which would make it very unlikely that he would suffer another direct injury to the eye, I would have thought.
Whilst I accept that Tanvir seems to have had a good time batting for St Lucia in the CPL, I also think you have him in round about the right place in that batting line-up as he bats quite low down for Pakistan. No idea where he batted for St Lucia.
But I think you've hit the nail on the head - that we have rather more bowling options than we do good batting ones. And Sohail's success with the bat in the CPL notwithstanding, he has been regarded in his career as more of a bowler than a batsman. A bowler that bats, if you like.
I also think we are short on the batting front. The line-up above, as you correctly say, cannot really be made to look impressive from a batting stand-point unless one of the following happens:
a) Craig Kieswetter becomes available to insert into it.
b) Tom Abell proves to be a major force in T20 (I've no idea what his limited overs prowess is like?).
c) Trescothick enjoys what would need to be a huge rebound from his awful T20 form of last season. It's certainly true that Tresco managed a CC rebound from his 2013 season - BUT the difference in Tresco's game from 2014 vs 2013 was that he re-discovered his ability to bat long and make tons. It wasn't that his early vulnerability disappeared. Batting long is obviously a non-factor in T20.
or
d) Lewis Gregory and/or Craig Overton develop into a major force with the bat in T20
Of the above scenarios, I would think that scenario a) is actually the most likely.
A top four of Allenby, Kies, Pete and Cooper should be pretty powerful.
But if scenario a) does not happen?
Scenarios b, c and d are all possible, and it's even possible that more than one of those three scenarios (or the overall four) could come off.
However, I personally suspect that none of scenarios b, c and d will occur and option a) is in the hands of medical progress/Kieswetter's willingness (or lack thereof) to get on with it prior to a 100% recovery in his eyesight. Personally, I would think that, having received significant re-assurance (from more than one source) as to his prognosis, CK may end up deciding to get on with his career at some point prior to things being absolutely 100%.. That's unless specialists have told him that doing so would somehow risk his recovery.*
* It is surely inevitable that he will never again bat (and possibly) keep (?) without a helmet with the full double visor that protects the eyes which would make it very unlikely that he would suffer another direct injury to the eye, I would have thought.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Monkey Butler (IP Logged)
Date: 19/02/2015 10:43
To my mind this doesn't actually 100% close the door on KP?
Tanvir is not the signing I would have wanted. However, it's the only thing that I have disagreed with MM on so far. He is much more qualified to judge abities of player and the needs in the team than me. The one thing that I am dissapointed in though, is the fact that he will miss the important part of the competetion. But many counties will have the same problem with their T20 overseas players.
Tanvir is not the signing I would have wanted. However, it's the only thing that I have disagreed with MM on so far. He is much more qualified to judge abities of player and the needs in the team than me. The one thing that I am dissapointed in though, is the fact that he will miss the important part of the competetion. But many counties will have the same problem with their T20 overseas players.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 19/02/2015 12:20
I suppose one way to look at the 'missing the important part of the competition,' bit, Monkey Butler is that the latter part of the competition would only be important if you win a sufficient number of games in the first half of the tournament.
I still struggle to believe that Tanvir can possibly have been the best available player if one included in our definition of "available," those players that would miss time due to CPL commitments.
It would have been much more understandable had we stuck to our original position (as I understood it) that we were only going to sign somebody available for the whole competition (had that applied to Tanvir).
I still struggle to believe that Tanvir can possibly have been the best available player if one included in our definition of "available," those players that would miss time due to CPL commitments.
It would have been much more understandable had we stuck to our original position (as I understood it) that we were only going to sign somebody available for the whole competition (had that applied to Tanvir).
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 19/02/2015 13:16
I'm afraid I disagree with MM on one other aspect which would have solved your possible problem. The man to fill the gap will be playing in Glamorgan for the rest of next year and possibly his whole career.
I'd also like to remind people that in the past few years we have had a very promising batting line-up in the short form of the game and they have done quite a lot of @#$%& all so maybe a less exciting line-up might surprise us all by over performing rather than persistently under performing. You never know
I'd also like to remind people that in the past few years we have had a very promising batting line-up in the short form of the game and they have done quite a lot of @#$%& all so maybe a less exciting line-up might surprise us all by over performing rather than persistently under performing. You never know
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Bobstan (IP Logged)
Date: 19/02/2015 13:43
People with intelligence are two a penny.
Those with wisdom are very much rarer birds.
Those with both? Hens' teeth come to mind. I think this site has above the national average for this third category - judging by other forums (fora?) that I see.
Those with wisdom are very much rarer birds.
Those with both? Hens' teeth come to mind. I think this site has above the national average for this third category - judging by other forums (fora?) that I see.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 19/02/2015 14:39
The air is rare here Mr Bob. Though there is still quite a lot of Bovine smelly stuff that creeps in on the odd occasion. :-)
But we all have our moments of both.
But we all have our moments of both.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
Date: 19/02/2015 14:43
Monkey Butler....K.P. Is playing in the same tournament as Tanvir, so would not be available as cover even if the club considered him.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: edinburghbil (IP Logged)
Date: 23/02/2015 20:35
A long shot, but I wonder if Jamie O might become a more than able T20 batsman
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Railboy (IP Logged)
Date: 24/02/2015 11:42
Not such a longshot at all I believe edinbugh. I have always believed that if a player is to make an impact at first team level he should be destroying teams at Club level. His innings last year against Sidmouth (the top echelon of club cricket) was the stuff of legends - 150 odd in 50ish balls!
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 24/02/2015 11:50
I've never been wholly convinced that the conventional wisdom (shared by the twins themselves) that "Craig is the better batsman and Jamie the better bowler," is really correct.
In fact, I certainly do not think that the latter proposition is correct.
As to the former proposition? I remember watching them bat together, for the first time, against Surrey at the Oval and Jamie was much the more aggressive and productive batsman of the two on that occasion (although I think Jamie had played a few first-team games by that time, whilst Craig may have been making his debut).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:02:25:09:53:39 by AGod.
In fact, I certainly do not think that the latter proposition is correct.
As to the former proposition? I remember watching them bat together, for the first time, against Surrey at the Oval and Jamie was much the more aggressive and productive batsman of the two on that occasion (although I think Jamie had played a few first-team games by that time, whilst Craig may have been making his debut).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:02:25:09:53:39 by AGod.
Re: Recruitment continues
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 24/02/2015 12:10
Jamie was certainly effective and aggressive with the bat against Notts at Trent Bridge as well. The ball? Not so great.
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