Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?


By Grockle et al
May 8 2015

A tourist game that was supposed to be a good money spinner at the start of the season has become a little more of a test game for the Somerset squad than expected.   With a poor to appalling start (depending on which game you want to talk about) to the county's Championship season and more CC1 games coming that we really cannot now afford to lose, Matthew Maynard is having to re-assess his resources to try and find a way out of the spiral his present first eleven seems to have got itself into. This offers chances to do a little more than just impress to the likes of Josh Davey.  It also offers an opportunity for some of the players struggling for form to get a handle on their game and work to turn the problem around.   It isn't just a game any more ladies and gentlemen!!  

v New Zealand Tourist @ TAUNTON Friday 8 May 2015

Scorecard

Commentary

OK Matthew, what are you going to do to make the most of this game?  It really no longer matters about the strength of the opposition, it has become more about assessing the strength of the cricketers playing in Somerset colours.  As such it is time to rest some, let others find form and assess the alternatives, limited though they are.

The team for this game consists of;

Tom Abell, Johann Myburgh, Tom Cooper, James Hildreth, Jim Allenby, Alex Barrow, Peter Trego (capt), Josh Davey, Craig Overton, Tim Groenewald and Abdur Rehman

It's interesting that Pete got the skipper's armband.  Though it probably has more to do with needing to rest Alf than a choice between them. Tom Abell returns and this time he is back to start his 2015 campaign.  He has finished studies for the summer and should now be fully available for first team duty.  His first entry was not exactly brilliant so we must all hope this gives him a chance to get his eye in. As Banger is being rested there is no surprise that Johann and the other Tom play.   Both need the time at the crease in their relatively new positions.

James has an outside chance of hitting 1000 runs early in the season - not something we've said all that often so he plays  We also may need his present stability in the 4th bat position.  Jim Allenby may be playing for his place at the moment, his bowling is not all that much of an asset if he can't hold the 5th batting spot.  A surprise that Alex has the gloves.  Many expected that this was the chance for James Regan to show what he can do but it seems not.  We sometimes forget that a number of these second team players are not all that old.  Maybe James is not ready to make a claim yet. I personally expected Alex to play but maybe not keep.  He needs some crease time because he has been unimpressive up to this point - though nowhere near on his own in that.

With Lewis Gregory (taken but not used it seems) and George Dockrell on international duty in Ireland, Pete takes the allrounder spot with Josh Davey as backup.  The younger man had a very good World Cup but has questions about whether he is a tight enough bowler for long format cricket.  Well here is the chance he has been waiting for.  He knows some of the opposition and bowls balls that take wickets...can he cut down the number of four balls and show the same promise with the bat he has been showing in the seconds this season?  We ought to all hope so because we need some backup.   Craig Overton needs the overs but Tim Groenewald will be conscious of the presence of Davey because the ex Deryshire seamer has not been at all impressive in his games so far and must know his position is one where questions are being asked and others are available.  Finally Abdur has also not lived up to early expectations and only got 10 overs against our last Championship opposition at New Road.  There is probably a justified argument that he is only playing in this game because George is not available and Jack Leach has managed to crack his skull open in a non sporting accident.

With Worcestershire to face before the first Test and this being a 4 day game, we have little idea what kind of side the Kiwi's will offer us but it really doesn't matter.  Cory Anderson does get a chance to have a feel of the Taunton pitch for later in the season (well actually he doesn't because although he is on the scorecard on Cricinfo he is still in India playing in the IPL!) but Somerset presently would struggle against any kind of quality and that has to change.  So whatever kind of team the tourists put on the pitch we have to perform to our potential against it.  If it is poor, we need to show it little compassion and if it is anywhere near what NZ can offer then a win or even a competitive none result would boost our confidence and give Maynard something to work with to model a side that can show Nottinghamshire some quality in our next away CC1 match.

The weather is against us from the outset and the game will not start on time.  There is an inspection at 11:15 and doubt about the amount of play on Day 1.  Somerset just have to take what they can.   This game must be used for our needs and not those of the visitors I am afraid.

 

Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockles.com (IP Logged)
Date: 08/05/2015 11:04

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:11:19:40:22 by Grockle.

Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Bagpuss (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 16:00

The four-day match starting on Friday, scheduled as an early-season jolly to bring in the punters and give some of the first team a weekend off, now takes on much more relevance as Someret look to rebuild from the rubble of their early season.

I'm guessing Jamie Overton won't be fir - and even if he is, would it be wise to risk the only bowler who has offered the Somerset attack something a bit different (even though the X-factor can be a bit hit-or-miss at times). Lewis G will be away trying to start his International career in the Emerald Isle, whilst George Dockrell will be there continuing his.

So that leaves us 10 of the team who get an extra day and a half off after finishing at Worcester plus some of those who have been confined to the Seconds waiting for a chance to impress. Well, step up to the plate, because your chances of gaining promotion to the first team on the back of a good performance against everyone's second favourite cricket nation couldn't be better.

Hildreth surely will be rested. Myself I'd leave out Trescothick and Rehmann too. Hopefully Abell is willing and able to play, to open alongside Myburgh. Leach comes in for Rehmann. Do we have another top 5 batsman to replace Hildreth at 4? I'm not too sure if there are any Acadmy youngstrs playing in the seconds who may get a game this week. Maybe we just shuffle everyone up one spot and bring in Davey? If Regan doesn't get his chance in this match to prove what he's got with the bat and the gloves then when will he? I expect both he and Barrow will play, possibly sharing keeping duties.

Somerset could be fortunate that several kiwis will be missing in action in the IPL.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:07:11:48:21 by Grockle.

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 16:27

Do we have another top 5 batsman to replace Hildreth at 4?

I misread this initially as
Do we have another top 5 batsmen to replace Hildreth at 4?

LoL

Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Bagpuss (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 16:33

Never fear Lol, its only while he puts his feet up for the weekend! Or goes to Ikea or something, whatever county cricketers do when they get some time off!

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 16:53

Golf. Which I hope our lot will not be permitted to do tomorrow (they need to spend time either in the nets or with the team psychologist instead).

Personally, I'd play Regan and bat him in a position in the batting order adjacent to Barrow in the hope they get to bat together and can thus be compared. And I'd give them one innings each to keep as well (if there is that much play).

Craig Overton needs the bowling, but sounded like Alf bowled well enough (according to MM) so I'd play a seam bowling attack of Craig O, Tim G and Josh Davey (in addition to Trego and Allenby) with the idea being that Josh D would be given the chance to supplant Tim G as an option when next a first team seam bowling place comes up for grabs (TG's bowling average of about 80 for SCCC so far has not inspired confidence).

Jack Leach has apparently been in hospital and GD will be unavailable, so unless the feeling is that Rehman needs the bowling, might be a rare game at first-class level for Max Waller...

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 17:35

As you say Bagpuss. Get 'em in and let them play or what is the point.

Does Barrow need keeping practice? Maybe we should let him concentrate on his batting which is dismal at the moment and have a GOOD look at James. Tom could do with time in the middle if it is possible and Allenby can captain as he needs all the long game practice he can presently get or he may be replacing Tom in the seconds the moment the young man is available.

Please play Adam Dibble. I really need to see what this man has that keeps him at the club but nearly always in mothballs.

I hope Jack is fit because he could be a BIG part of getting this sorted as his mentality has always seemed to be 'give me the ball and I'll get the job done'.

At least this tourist game has more interest than usual.

(Sm72)

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 17:56

I fear that Friday's play will be interrupted by Judge Jeffreys seeking instant trial and punishment for all Tauntonians who the previous day insisted on voting for their Lib-Dem candidate in preference to the UKIP one.

LoL

Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: byronbay (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 20:41

I fear that Friday's play will be interrupted by a lot of wet stuff.

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Shepton Paul 2 (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 21:35

But then, today's was going to be washed out - as I think was the third day v Middlesex?!

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 21:48

there has simply been not enough washing out of late...

LoL

Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Shepton Paul 2 (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2015 22:01

Maybe more dirty washing in public would suit some?

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Scrumper (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 02:23

A depression will be circulating all summer.

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 03:44

Didn't rain here either.

(Sm72)

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: nelliec (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 08:12

Forecast good now all weekend.I think Hildy might play as the club obviously want the game to go behond day 2

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: nelliec (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 08:42

My team would be;

Abell
Barrow
Cooper
Hildy
Allenby(Just to find a score)
Trego(Likewise)
Regan WK
Davey
Cove
Thomas Capt
Leach

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 09:45

I think I pretty much agree with your team, Nellie C except that, reportedly, Alf bowled well at New Road so I don't think he needs the bowling so I'd play TG - effectively putting him into a "shoot-out," with Josh Davey for a reserve bowling seam bowling place when there are inevitably injuries or what have you to the first choice players.

For Davey it would also be a chance to see if he has enough batting ability to make him some sort of contender to come in should Allenby either be injured or continue to be highly unproductive with the bat.

I'd let Pete Trego lead the side to see what he can do (not sure he's ever had the opportunity before?)

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 10:07

He led Somerset against Pakistan a couple of seasons ago when Gregory made his bowling debut I think because he refused to allow them to make it a 12 man game to keep Lewis's figures. I could be wrong about the situation but Trigger has led against a tourist side before.

(Sm72)

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 10:12

Fair enough.

I hope NZ are able to put something on the park that is a reasonable side, otherwise any notion of getting a look at what people not currently in the first team can do, will probably be unrealistic.

There was talk of NZ fielding a load of semi-professional players in the game. I hope they have enough non-IPL players in their squad, that these can be kept to a minimum.

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 10:19

I doubt there's any chance of that given how near this is to the first Test. Are we the last game before it? I lose track out here.

(Sm72)

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 10:29

I think they are playing Worcs too?

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 10:46

I like that side listed above. I too want Hildreth to play, for he (with 512 @ 73.14) has an outside chance of scoring 1000 before the end of May. Hales has 639 @ 79.87).

I assume that runs scored in the curtain-raiser in the Gulf count towards the end-of-May target, given that the match was officially part of the English season.

LoL

Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 11:09

We could always of course play a 'Wild Card' in view of the fact that it is a Tourist match and therefore qualifications as such do not apply.

In 2001 for instance, we played both Aamir Sohail and Shoaib Akhtar for guest appearances against the Australians.

I can not see the logic of doing something similar again, but maybe the club could give an 'outsider' the opportunity to show what he can do, with a future contract in mind.

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 11:13

Why? How would that solve our present problems?

In the cases where we have done this it was either a marketing exercise to increase revenue at the game or as a favour to the national team prior to a Test series.

(Sm72)

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 11:14

That is certainly my understanding LoL

(Sm72)

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 11:18

If NZ are going to be fielding a team shorn of all of their stars, then from a purely marketing point of view then some kind of 'stunt,' along the lines of the Pakistanis could be deemed necessary.

From a playing point of view, with us facing myriad issues, it would be manifest nonsense.

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 11:29

Quote:
Clarence Parker

I can not see the logic of doing something similar again .......

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 11:33

Although it's a good job that Yorkshire are not sans a contest in the next round of CC matches, otherwise the wretched ECB would probably be asking us to play Adam Lyth, to make up for the fact that they were too stupid to pick him in the Windies....

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 13:32

Quote:
Clarence Parker
We could always of course play a 'Wild Card' in view of the fact that it is a Tourist match .... maybe the club could give an 'outsider' the opportunity to show what he can do, with a future contract in mind.

I refer the learned gentleman to the question I asked some moments ago.... Why? How would that help solve our present problems?

(Sm72)

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 13:46

How many more times........... ?

"I can not see the logic of doing something similar again......"

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2015 14:31

How many more times? I don't know. That was part of the earlier part of the quote. You suggested this 'outsider' after that part.

I assume you now see that as illogical as well and I have to agree with you

(Sm72)

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 15:54

Somerset team v. New Zealand: J Myburgh, T Abell, T Cooper, J Hildreth, J Allenby, A Barrow (wkt), P Trego (capt), C Overton, J Davey, T Groenewald, A Rehman.

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 15:56

The Somerset team is- Tom Abell, Johann Myburgh, Tom Cooper, James Hildreth, Jim Allenby, Alex Barrow, Peter Trego (capt), Josh Davey, Craig Overton, Tim Groenewald and Abdur Rehman

Ben Green 12th Man

No Place for James Regan....pity

No Place for Adam Dibble.....not surprised so could this be his last season.


Sorry CP for double posting of the team, you beat me to it...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:07:15:58:36 by Roger ivanhoe.

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 16:15

I guess they think Rehman needs the bowling then? With the exception of no opportunity for Regan and AR playing instead of JL or MW the team is pretty much what I would have picked too.

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 16:31

Then why did Rehman only bowl 10 overs at Worcester, but if it's the team you would have selection AG then the management have a last done something right this season IYO.

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 16:41

Well not really Roger because Abdur shouldn't even be here until the second half of the season.(Sm100)

Sorry about young Regan... thought it might be the chance for him to show us something. The powers must think he hasn't got enough yet.

BIG chance for Josh and deserved after his World Cup though he my have to improve his control to really push for a four day place...but he does bowl wicket taking balls!!

Not just no place for Adam D. No sign of him...his "last" season I would suggest was a couple of summers ago... probably 2012 when he helped (but only sometimes) to keep the side together in the injury season. Since then? What exactly has he done to keep his summer job? No criticism of the lad's potential (there's no recent evidence to really criticise) but enough is enough surely. He simply seems incapable of staying fit.

(Sm72)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:07:16:55:04 by Grockle.

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 16:51

Well, Roger, unless you've got an alternative explanation, then I think we'll have to conclude that Rehman only bowled 10 overs at New Road because Trescothick thought that the seamers were a better bet than AR was to take wickets.

But unless both of MW and JL are unavailable, then I'd suggest it's a minor surprise that AR is in the side vs NZ (don't think anyone here had him in their teams). Hence why I suspect that they want to get him a load of bowling in a match where the result is very much secondary to the desire to have certain players find some acceptable level of form.

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 16:57

Regan not being picked presumably means they are not considering any sort of alternative to Alex Barrow, so he especially better find some form against NZ, if management consider that there is no remotely viable alternative to him.

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 17:01

I've still not read anything about the outcome of the MRI that Jamie Overton was scheduled to have. Have any other posters heard or seen anything about the outcome?

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 17:13

Max Waller is playing Golf today,

Jove's foot is in a Boot! Or it was earlier in the week, So I assume not available.

They, (Marcus and presumably MM) allocated 15 overs to Allenby who had little success also at Worcester.

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 17:22

Hopefully just protective/pre-cautionary in the case of JO.

If there's been a diagnosis rendered I do think it a little strange that nothing has been said in terms of "has a x or y strain/tear, will probably be out for z weeks/months."

I wasn't expecting JO to actually play in this one anyway, so was just wondering if anybody had heard anything.

Re: New Road and Allenby... One thing I will say is that, according to the Beeb commentary team, it sounded as though Jim Allenby bowled rather well. They were saying that he was swinging the ball in and then getting it to hold its line off the seam. Looking at the figures he does seem to have provided Tres with a good deal of control when he was bowling, at least. Don't know if he was unlucky not to take wickets or whether the ball was deviating too much to actually catch an edge.

Admittedly, MM said nothing about JA's bowling (whilst praising the bowling of Alf and PT) so maybe MM did not agree with the Beeb.

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 18:49

Jim bowled ok I thought at Worcs.
He is very medium but very consistent from what I have seen.
He beat bat on several occasions but as with the others maybe didn't get the luck.
I'd liken him to perhaps Keith Parsons, wicket to wicket and wobbles it.
Slower than Trego but in 1 day stuff particularly I think his bowling will be an asset.

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 20:39

Yes, I too think he'll go well with the ball in the short stuff.

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: nelliec (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2015 23:40

Jack has a fracture to his skull which was just an accident.Don't know how serious but out for a while I would presume

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 08/05/2015 06:59

How the hell did he manage that?

(Sm72)

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 08/05/2015 08:47

Any weather update from HQ? Mike TA1?

Looks from the radar we'll do very well to get much/any play?

However if it is just showers around amazing how many times Taunton misses those.....

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: cricketharris (IP Logged)
Date: 08/05/2015 09:14

There has been a steady drizzle for the past three or four hours in Taunton. Very grey skies. And not just on Liberal Democrats.

Re: Black Caps and Blackbirds
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 08/05/2015 11:03

Inspection at 11.45 am.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 08/05/2015 11:32

Is there commentary on this one? I can't find any reference to it on the BBC. We are not even allowed to listen to the England v Ireland match... we have Drogba's injury rehab for Chelsea instead of TMS because it infringes some idiotic license agreement!!

Massive audience for a Northern European second level one day game in the Middle East

(Sm72)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Goonie goo goo (IP Logged)
Date: 08/05/2015 12:38

I see as at the present time Cricinfo have us with 11 players and NZ with only 8.

Have we stooped that low that teams can play us with men short?

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Bagpuss (IP Logged)
Date: 08/05/2015 12:42

Started at 12.30. Lunch (I think) at 1.30

Commentary available via BBC webside or tune in live event 8

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 08/05/2015 12:52

Ggg - my guess would be that the other 3 NZ players may be semi-professionals. There was talk of NZ having to field some. Cricinfo would presumably have no details for them and as their scorecards presumably have a database behind them, then I suspect that's why they have names only for the 8 professinals that NZ are playing.

Not the greatest of starts for TG already. He surely needs a strong performance if he wants to avoid being second team filler for most of the season?

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 08/05/2015 13:10

Welcome to the game, Mr Davey!

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 08/05/2015 13:27

Well, Josh Davey has now already surpassed TG in terms of "pecking order for a place," in my mind. Wonder what MM is thinking?

Hamish Rutherford is a good player, IMO.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 08/05/2015 13:28

The man does take wickets. Can the keep the score down?

(Sm72)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 08/05/2015 13:30

In terms of team selection for TB, I'm guessing JO (if foot really in a boot) is probably unlikely.

Craig Overton probably needs quite a bit of bowling to get into a rhythm, and so if he doesn't go well in this one, it's possible that Josh Davey might conceivably replace CO for Trent Bridge?

Although if MM is concerned with the "variety," angle then Craig obviously delivers the ball from a different angle to our other bowlers, bar his twin.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Bagpuss (IP Logged)
Date: 08/05/2015 13:36

Craig Oveton is considerably quicker than Josh Davey too. Not that I'm saying that as a reason not t play him - I was disappointed he didn't get a first team chance lasst season and hopefully his time will come sooner rather than later. He bowls wicket-taking balls. And I can forgive a lot for that even going at 4.5 runs an over.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 08/05/2015 13:38

But 3 overs for 1 run thus far, may well assuage any economy-rate concerns, anyway.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 08/05/2015 13:56

Yep we need 20 wickets a game. If he can take some then the batsmen may have to do their jobs and score more runs - we want that as well so it works for me.

(Sm72)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 10:54

Sounds like the track was rather lively yesterday.

If that's still the case today then it could be rather 'interesting,' to say the least when our guys have to bat on it. Who will show the requisite mettle if the ball is doing plenty?

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 11:28

Re: the talk about Davey and his economy rate. No question, he was expensive and bowled too much loose stuff at the World Cup.

BUT, in the context of potential selection for an SCCC CC1 side?

No evidence of a "economy," problem, when compared to his SCCC team-mates on the basis of this innings. None at all.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 11:30

Once again, if we're not going to bowl Mr Rehman, then I'm at a bit of a loss as to why he was picked for this one?

Wouldn't we have been better off with Max Waller's fielding if we wanted a spinner to be in the team but do nowt but field?

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Nailsea_Fizz (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 12:03

Maybe we are saving him for the later part of the season.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 12:08

I assume we're hoping that he'll do something in the second dig.

However, IF we bat properly (probably a huge IF admittedly) then there won't exactly be a huge amount of time left in this three day match by the time NZ bat again. ONe assumes that Pete will not sling AR the new ball either, so if we bat properly there might be only about 10-12 overs or left for Rehman in this match, IMO.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 12:09

The BBC sports app is marvellous. It has informed me of the fall of three NZ wickets and one of ours after 1 hour of play.

I click on the alerts to check the present score to find that the app's scorecard has not yet been updated from the overnight total. What is the flaming point of offering the up to date service?

Somerset 4 for 1.... Whoops for 2 as Myburgh AND Abell have both gone. Oh dear once more

(Sm72)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 12:10

Equally, Nailsea, I'm afraid it's possible that even with a first dig score of not very many, NZ might not even have to bat again...

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 12:15

Quote:
AGod
I assume we're hoping that he'll do something in the second dig.
However, IF we bat properly (probably a huge IF admittedly) then there won't exactly be a huge amount of time left in this three day match ...

But isn't it a four-day match?

LoL

Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 12:17

I firstly reported it as a 3 day but the scorecard was dated until the 11th so I'm assuming four days. Then again that initial version had Cory Anderson batting at 2. It wasn't until later on I realised that he's still in India as far as I know.

(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:09:12:18:46 by Grockle.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 12:20

9 for bloody 3!!

(Sm72)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 12:21

I thought these things were ALWAYS 3 day matches?

My bad if not.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 12:22

Maybe Mr Maynard might want to re-consider trying to be both DoC and batting coach!?

Because batting coach with this lot looks like a very busy endeavour indeed..

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Nailsea_Fizz (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 12:30

You're a cheery begger

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 12:35

It's called being honest.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 12:44

Looks like Jim A fancies Bracewell, though, whilst if we've made Mr Wheeler look a bit like Mr Akram so far ( to judge from the scorecard).

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Nailsea_Fizz (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 12:58

Maybe He's bowling like Mr Akram, just to be positive you understand.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 13:01

You could probably look like Mr Akram with the total lack of confidence that our batsmen show.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 13:10

My apologies - it is indeed a 4 day match.

Although the distinction is - unfortunately, likely to prove academic.

One assumes that NZ will opt for batting practice, rather than enforcing the follow-on should they sweep away our bottom 5 for 30 odd?

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 13:27

Not sure what anyone can do when the batting is falling to bits like this.

Who do you build around?
Who do you work with?
Bring in some more coaches... one man isn't enough at the moment.
Have we got enough nets to get them all in for extra work?
Do we have enough bowlers?

(Sm72)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 13:42

I'd definitely send for a batting coach.

We know we lack options in terms of playing personnel on the batting front.

But I see no logical reason why we couldn't find a batting coach.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 14:16

Go on, Pete, stick it to 'em.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Wickham (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 14:54

On the bright side, this is a great opportunity for Barrow and Davey to show their mettle.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Nailsea_Fizz (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 16:09

We following on yet.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 16:24

Nah we got to 33 behind. Pretty flaming dismal though

(Sm72)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Nailsea_Fizz (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 16:26

Indeed

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 16:36

We seem to be sailing on the sea of mediocrity at the moment ?

Grizzzly

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 16:41

Well, I suppose it's a game of two halves, so far.

The bowlers and the second half of the batting order (with the members of the two groups being mainly the same, Barrow apart) have done well enough to derive some encouragement from their performances.

Clearly, the same cannot really be said of a top five, all of whom lost their wickets within 14 overs of the start of our innings (which I think was a similar rate of decline to the second innings debacle at New Road). Between them the top five faced a grand total of 79 deliveries.

What I would like to see from the rest of the game is a long bowl for Rehman (with some wickets) and more bowling for Craig Overton to move him closer to where he needs to be. Some more encouragement for Davey would also be nice. Then we MUST hope and pray for a good performance from the top five in our second dig.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:09:16:44:52 by AGod.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 16:43

Not that bad, surely. We are, after all, playing a whole country, one that reached the final of the World Cup, even if it is not quite their first eleven.

LoL

Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 16:48

I suspect they may be too good for England, LoL, in the Tests- not that their prowess in short form cricket is really relevant to that.

But I think this is also their first match of any kind on the tour, so one imagines they will be rather rusty. It is quite common for touring sides to be ambushed by County sides in those circumstances. Certainly Bracewell seems to have been mauled by Allenby so I imagine that the former was very rusty indeed. I suspect that, had we been a confident side coming into this game, we might also have ambushed them - at least to the extent of getting our noses in front on first dig.

I don't know what this Wheeler guy that cut a swathe through our top order is like as a bowler (quality wise) but England must hope that he's not a second bowler of Trent Boult type calibre.

As to their strength versus their first choice side, I think they are without either five or six guys that were named in their squad due to the IPL nonsense (including Corey Anderson) and also without Martin Guptill, who is injured.

Certainly, one would expect their first-choice XI to include Kane Williamson, Tim Southee and Trent Boult, as definite starters.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:09:16:52:26 by AGod.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 16:53

TG now seems to be having his first successful long-form game for Somerset outside of pre-season games vs CC2 teams.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 19:02

Another wicket for Allenby, so that's good.

Rehman finally got a bowl but his returns were not encouraging.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 19:15

Sounds like Tom Cooper learned nothing from his dismissal in the second-innings fiasco at New Road. As per the Beeb on that occasion, he was guilt of a lavish drive in conditions (and at a juncture in the match) in which it was highly inappropriate. As per the cricinfo report on today's game, he once again appears to have thought that a lavish drive was appropriate before he had played himself in and with the top order again already on the ropes.

Not re-assuring. He needs to make the mental adjustment in a hurry (to the fact that he's not playing in ultra benign batting conditions at the Adelaide Oval).

When the ball is swinging around, you've only faced 8 prior balls, you're not in great form, you've yet to score a run and your team has already lost a couple of wickets for naff all runs, then you simply HAVE to make the mental effort required to rein in your "natural game."

That applies to virtually all mortals in that type of situation. Yes, if you're Viv you're good enough that you can come out in that situation and aim to counter-attack immediately and if you fail, so be it, because you're talented enough that you could just as easily have made 60 from 34 balls and turned the momentum of the contest.

Mere mortals, as opposed to uber-mensches like Viv, have to make the mental effort to adjust their game to the prevailing conditions and match situation.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:09:19:47:12 by AGod.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Railboy (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 19:48

Hildreth scores 13 with 3 x 4s, Allenby 28 with 7 x4s, Trego 40 with 9x4s Anything to be read into this? I think there sure is, trouble is it sounds very familiar to a Maynard innings of old if my memory serves me well.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 19:54

As I understand it, MM has been fairly clear that he wants the team to bat "positively".

I've heard nothing from him of the refrain from Nosworthy/Houghton that the team had to learn to build long innings. Towards the end of his tenure, that was also the refrain from Brian Rose.

Clearly, there has to be a balance between being "positive," and being reckless.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 20:01

The batting from Somerset this morning was unquestionably atrocious.

A number of the squad were joyfully playing football prior to the game, and in hindsight one wonders whether this time might have been more usefully spent on batting practice.

One might easily have been forgiven for thinking that Somerset were a club side having been pitted against Test Match opposition.

Abell, Myburgh and in particular Cooper looked all at sea against admittedly a useful opening attack. Wheeler in particular caused them a lot of trouble with his left - arm pace bowling, and it was not until his 7th. over before anyone had taken a run off his bowling - by which time he had already taken 3 wickets. Hildreth and Allenby both hit some attractive boundaries, but not without some difficulties, before they too succumbed before lunch.

The natives were getting restless, and calls of "Unbelievable" and "No wonder we are at the bottom of the Table" sprung forth upon us reaching 54 for 5.

Trego (although having some anxious moments early on) and Barrow settled things down, and in their own different styles both played some pleasant shots as they took the score on to 110 before Trego was caught in the deep.

We ended with a first innings deficit of 33 runs, but the top order batting (sans Trescothick) should be a major concern to our ‘batting coach’ Matthew Maynard.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 20:04

I thoroughly approve of the comments re: the batting from Peter Trego on the official website.

He confirms that Wheeler bowled really well but, as Pete so rightly says:

"This is first-class cricket. You have to expect that good bowlers are going to bowl some good spells and you've simply got to find a way of dealing with it."

Pete is also quite clear, in his comments, that it is the Somerset batting that has cost us all three CC1 matches thus far.

Pete says that Jim Allenby bowled extremely well in the final session today. So that's something for Jim A to build on and good to hear.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:09:20:06:32 by AGod.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 20:39

I didn't manage to post any photos yesterday a few extra today.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Abdur%20Rehman%206%20runs.jpg

The first photo, Abdur Rehman hitting a six.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Tom%20Latham%20off%20Josh%20Davey.jpg

Peter Trego almost getting his hand on the ball off an edge from Tom Latham off the bowling of Josh Davey

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Neil%20Wagner%204%20runs.jpg

It is harder to get wickets the second time around with clearer weather, Neil Wagner scoring four runs.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Neil%20Wagner%20bld%20Craig%20Overton.jpg

Craig Overton got two wickets in New Zealand's first innings, this is one of them Neil Wagner.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Jacob%20Duffy%20bld%20Craig%20Overton.jpg

And this is the other one, Jacob Duffy.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Tommy%20Cooper%20bld%20Ben%20Wheeler%201.jpg

Tommy Cooper bowled by Ben Wheeler (first photo)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Tommy%20Cooper%20bld%20Ben%20Wheeler%202.jpg

The ? Mark is where is Tommy Cooper's third stump, I can see one of the bails. (second photo)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Peter%20Trego%204%20runs.jpg

I think Peter Trego was given four runs for this shot? over the wicket keeper.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Peter%20Trego%20ct%20Mitchell%20Santner%20bld%20Neil%20Wagner.jpg

Peter Trego top edging this ball from Neil Wagner, with two fielders out he was going to be caught by one of them, it was Mitchell Santner who caught him

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Alex%20Barrow%20lbw%20Mark%20Craig.jpg

Alex Barrow managed to score runs until he was lbw off the bowling of Mark Craig, we need more runs from him.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Shepton Paul 2 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 20:45

Seems like Barrow at least has a bit of stick ability about him, rather than going for boundaries. I did wonder that they seem to have been doing a fair bit of T20 on their practice days - that may be a factor.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 09/05/2015 22:05

Barrow was slow, scratchy but to be fair stuck it out and at least tried to get his head down.
Jim came out and smashed Bracewell around then got out trying to leave guiding to gully.
Tom A, Mybs and Cooper all got cleaned up first off, and Tregs got a start but then lost his head, 3 shots, 1- big drive edged between 1st/2nd slipm 2- huge drive, play+miss, 3- short ball, got big on him, 2 men back, yet still went for big hook and got caught!

We have got to find a way of sorting this batting out, collapsing every match is killing us.
Quick 20/30's aren't good enough. 4 days is a long long time, we have to get stuck in, im all for playing positively but last 3 innings have been, 250ao, 90ao, 204ao, you just cant compete in proper cricket with scores like that!

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Wickham (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 08:41

Many thanks, Mike - great photos, even by your standards.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 12:52

Looks like Jim A might be starting to come into his own with the ball?

No sign of Rehman with the ball, so really wasn't worth picking him for this tourist game.

If the forecast for Trent Bridge proves largely overcast, then I think Somerset should surely consider including the extra batsman, in Abell, rather than bothering with picking a spinner that may scarcely bowl, as was the case both vs Worcs and in this match.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 12:57

Outstanding economy rate for Craig O, which is hopefully indicative of getting to the place he needs to be at, bowling wise.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 15:12

Tin hats on, we are about to bat once again.

Talk was that batting is becoming easier as the track flattens out, as per usual.

Will things still look that way with us batting?

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 15:31

Quick start by Abell but first wicket (Myburgh) already down after 3 overs... can we avoid a procession this time?

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 15:39

Pleased for TG & Jim Allenby that they have some decent bowling figures.

Provides a nice platform for someone to excel with the bat.

Grizzzly

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 16:44

Cooper bowled yet again?

Quality players do not get repeatedly bowled, IMO.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Nailsea_Fizz (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 17:45

Does the same reasoning apply to Tom Abell who met the same fate a few short weeks ago.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 17:55

Has Cooper been bowled a lot in his four games for us then? Personally I don't care if he's bowled as long as it is after 50+ runs are on the board.

(Sm72)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 18:13

There haven't been 50+ runs on the board either.

That's three successive innings in which he has been bowled - both times here and the second dig at New Road.

Anyway, at 124 for 6 it looks like yet another low, low quality batting performance.

It is going to be a very, very long season with this abject batting line-up, I'm afraid.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Connaught Opener (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 18:14

Positions 3,5 and 6 up for grabs. Surely Tom Abell has to play v Notts in one of them.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 18:21

So 3 is enough to question the class of a player is it? What were his other scores this season? Was he bowled there as well?

(Sm72)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 18:22

Absolutely.

I think I'd play Tom at three and drop Cooper down to the other side of Hildreth where he might be more likely to be able to get away with his loose Adelaide flat-track drives (assuming those ahead of him don't collapse early on). Jim Allenby can then bat at six which might be more do-able for him, I would hope.

That would mean going with one fewer bowler, but we don't need the quantity of bowlers that we have been picking and we desperately need to mitigate batting deficiencies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:10:18:28:11 by AGod.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 18:24

I wait to see Grockle, whether it was another gormless drive from Cooper as in his second dig dismissal at Worcester and first dig dismissal here, but I would not be surprised if it was.

He was also bowled vs Middx, albeit vs the spinner rather than seamer. So he's running at a 50% rate of getting bowled. He hasn't made all that many runs, quite frankly.

What have his scores been?

Five single figure scores out of 8. Zero fifties.

A team needs somebody with some solidity at number three and - at least in early season English conditions, this man does not seem to me to fit the bill at all well.

Having somebody solid at three can help prevent the loss of one wicket quickly turning first into the loss of 2 and then .............. well you know how these collapses have gone, Grockle.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:10:18:29:56 by AGod.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 18:29

Not only lower class but gormless as well. And this is based on your assessment from how many miles away? Have you seen Cooper play at all this season?

And you are sure that all this poor ability and seeming idiocy now is based on his cricket ground of origin in his own country?

Hmmmm. It really is stunning how you can classify a player on such massive amounts of information from desk research.

(Sm72)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 18:31

Read the reports of the two most recent dismissals before this one - brainless airy drives in utterly inappropriate circumstances. Hence, why I say they were gormless dismissals.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 18:35

So What? Has his brain atrophied over a period of time or just the last couple of days. He has now become some useless piece of meat with no brain on the basis of a couple of reports? Is that the basis of your assessment? Well that is even more stunning.

Ever heard of having a bad game? I saw that from Mark Lathwell for half a season once. He wasn't gormless of course because he didn't play on an Adelaide wicket I assume.

(Sm72)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 18:39

If you read what I said, I said the DISMISSALS were gormless. Not he is gormless. You seem to struggle with the distinction.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 18:39

We are going to struggle with an inept batting line - up all season.

We can not recruit domestic players; we have our overseas player; it is extremely unlikely that we will be able to take on a loanee from another county; no bright glimmer of hope of a suitable quality player from one of the University teams joining us during their vacations etc.

We have got what we have got, and so far the results that we deserve.

If the buck has to stop somewhere, then it is at the feet of Mr. Maynard - unless anyone else thinks differently of course?

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 18:43

Meanwhile, in another rather large problem, we have an overseas player who has been asked to bowl only 23 of the most recent 267 overs that Somerset have bowled.

What is going on with Rehman?

Have two different SCCC Captains mis-read the past two pitches and deduced that there would be something in the tracks for him, only to find out there was nothing? (hence he's been selected but then barely bowled).

Does he look so unlikely to take a wicket at the moment that two different SCCC Captains have largely ignored him for the past two games?

Is he carrying some sort of injury? (if so, we surely wouldn't risk him here).

Is he finding the County game a bit of a drag and struggling for motivation?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:10:18:47:04 by AGod.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 18:45

Clarence - how about a step higher up than Mr Maynard?

It remains to be seen if Mr Maynard's appointment will bear any fruit. Although the early portents are not overwhelmingly positive.

The appointment of Mr Dave Nosworthy was a not a success.

So far as I am aware, the folks that appointed Nosworthy are also the folks that appointed Maynard?

So if the latter appointment does not work out, then I think the buck belongs upstairs somewhere.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 18:47

I don't struggle with anything. You call a man 'brainless' and his shots 'gormless' I think we can all manage to put the correct meaning on things.


Maybe it's a case of 'takes one to know one' in both cases.


moderated for inappropriate comments

(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:11:05:18:03 by Grockle.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 18:48

Nah, you've made a fool of yourself with your reading comprehension problems.

The brainless applied to the airy drives, just as the gormless applied to them.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 18:53

At least there have been some encouraging signs amongst the seam/swing bowlers in this match. Something at least somewhat good for all apart from Trego amongst this contingent, by the looks of it.

If JA has now started to find his feet with the ball, then it is to be hoped that this will rub off on his batting at some point.

At least Tom A had a decent amount of time in the middle in the second dig, which is his first stay of decent length in the opening role at first-team level, as opposed to the number four berth that he batted in at the end of last season.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 18:57

And both were made by whom? And that makes your assessment of him what? Oh yes Cooper that sudden batsman of no quality. You really are a joy to read at times... Maturity is not really your strong suit is it.

Anyway we'll see how things go in our line-up and who else you can snapshot a judgement on in the near future - it isn't the first time and it won't be the last. Hope it stays pretty consistent in that they are usually unfounded and a 'little' over the top.

Now what's the score in the important stuff?

(Sm72)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:11:05:19:59 by Grockle.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 19:01

Yes, he essayed two brainless shots, given the circumstances from what I read. That doesn't mean that he isn't a member of MENSA or cannot solve a complete a Rubik's cube.

Thinking isn't really your strong suit is it?

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: ChenorTom (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 19:09

That's a sorry looking card in the context of Somerset's season. As Gibson said on the commentary- batsmen must play each ball on its merits. Much though I agree with Trego's assertion that players should play their natural game when batting, it was something that was always said of Kevin Pieteresen and which I strongly disagreed with. For me specialist batsmen should be able to play in different match situations-since thats their job. It seems like an abdication of responsbility to suggest otherwise. There is no doubt that an attacking batsmen will not relish a grinding survival battle and may not be best suited to that but they can't just go throwing the bat instead because ''thats the way they play'. The worrying truth is that very few batsmen are playing the match situation appropriately. IMO The imbalance between caution and counterattack seems to be contributing to some of these collapses.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 19:14

Quite right, Tom.

KP's garbage about "that's the way I play," in response to criticism of his dismissals Down Under, was nothing more than an indication that he cannot be bothered to make the mental effort required to adjust his game to the situation.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Goonie goo goo (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 19:28

Cooper average 18 , Allenby average 14 Barrow even less. I don't care how they get out or whatever and from how many miles away one happens to be but for me that is Plain garbage from 3 5 and 6. They , the DOC and Nash need to sort this or ship out. Haven't heard much from him lately either!!

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 19:41

Given that Barrow is not really offering much at all with the bat, I re-state that we should probably look at Michael Bates, since he is surely a better keeper than Barrow is.

No, Bates wouldn't be an answer with the bat but his record does not really suggest he'd be a down-grade, really, on Barrow either. So if he's better with the gloves?

Let's face it, with our batting line-up, SCCC are going to need to save every run possible in the field.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Goonie goo goo (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 19:44

Ben foakes at Surrey isn't playing either .

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 19:47

Is he a good keeper, do you know, Ggg?

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 19:49

[www.espncricinfo.com]

Looks like Foakes may be a half-decent batsman. If not playing at Surrey and with them not in our division, maybe they might be amenable to loaning him out?

And, yeah, I know we've got James Regan but if he was considered anything like ready, they'd have surely taken a look at him in this game vs NZ? (not necessarily instead of Barrow, but in addition to)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Goonie goo goo (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 19:54

No idea of his keeping ability AG. Ok batsman though and we need something as unfortunately Maynard has over estimated our capabilities

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 19:58

I think MM has probably been rudely awakened by now!!!

But he definitely needs to find some options since he, presumably, has no magic wand, nor fairy dust that he can sprinkle over our hapless batsmen.

It's a good job that James Hildreth has risen to the responsibility of being a senior player, because if he had played like he had under Dave Nosworthy, then we'd be even further up excrement creek sans paddle.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 20:28

If Barrow does stay in the side then he should surely drop down from six?

CC1 sides simply do not field guys at number six with career averages of only 20. In most CC1 sides, guys with the sort of average bat at number eight or even number nine.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Bobstan (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 20:37

Dateline August, 2000.

Why on earth have they chosen that Trescothick fellow to play for England? His figures just don't warrant it, and we know that statistics are all that matter in making selection decisions.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Goonie goo goo (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 20:45

Yep that's right chief. You and me in the frame for the next game then ? I average zip in the first class game so must be considered surely ?

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 20:49

Bobstan - as you know very well the answer is that Fletcher saw Tresco score 167 in a game where the next highest score was about 35 on a very fast and bouncy pitch against Kallis, at his fastest, and armed with a new ball.

In other words - Tresco showed his potential that day (whilst simultaneously revealing that he'd underachieved in a major way for Somerset).

Unfortunately, Barrow has done no such thing.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 21:05

Day three photos.

I was hoping for a better last day tomorrow but with so few wickets remaining has made it hard to get a win out of it.

Bad shot selection from.

Tommy Cooper.
Jim Allenby.
Alex Barrow.
Peter Trego (so I am told I didn't see it)

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Mitchell%20Santner%20off%20Tim%20Groenewald.jpg

Photo similar to one yesterday, the ball just out of reach of Peter Trego, Mitchell Santner batting the bowler Tim Groenewald.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Mark%20Craig%20ct%20Alex%20Barrow%20bld%20Craig%20Overton.jpg

A good match for Craig Overton, seen here dismissing Mark Craig ct Alex Barrow bld Craig Overton.
Alex Barrow with seven catches in the match.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Bradley-John%20Watling%20ct%20Alex%20Barrow%20bld%20Tim%20Groenewald.jpg

Craig Overton wanted to join in the celebrations after Bradley-John Watling was caught by Alex Barrow off the bowling of Tim Groenewald but nobody could reach his hands.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Ben%20Wheeler%204%20runs.jpg

Ben Wheeler showing how to play the scoop shot for four runs.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Tommy%20Cooper%20bld%20Neil%20Wagner.jpg

Even though this photo is out of focus I have included it so you can see the shot Tommy Cooper played off the bowling of Neil Wagner.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/James%20Hildreth.jpg

Thank goodness for James Hildreth, he played several of these types of shots always keeping them down or in a safe area.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Tom%20Abell%20ct%20Luke%20Ronchi%20bld%20Mark%20Craig.jpg

Tom Abell was a bit unlucky getting himself in a bit of a tangle off the bowling of Mark Craig, the wicket keeper Luke Ronchi didn't take it cleanly he seem to drop the ball but manage to catch it before it hit the ground. (that's how I saw it).

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Alex%20Barrow.jpg

Alex Barrow using his feet to play this shot, unfortunately he didn't stay around long in the second innings.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Wickham (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 21:45

Many thanks, Mike - I love the Cove caption.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 22:30

Looks like yet another lavish Cooper drive to be bowled then, to judge from Mike's photo.

Why can't he try to play himself in first, before resorting to the big shots?

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 22:56

Maybe you should visit Taunton and ask Tom Cooper himself AGOD instead on continually telling this site how various players should play, and how the club should be managed.

Perhaps you would answer two questions.

1. Have you every played Cricket at a professional level.

2. Have you ever managed a Company.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: wsm fan (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 23:15

I try to be as positive as I can but this is starting to get a huge worry.

Cooper and Allenby played awful shots, really poor. Once, twice, 3 times maybe but you cant keep getting out playing stupide shots. To stop these collapses the only way is to get your head down, get stuck in, just playing wild shots is suicide.

Allenby today, holed out at mid on having scored 4, what makes someone do that.

I firmly believe players are individually responsible for the way they play on the field. Maynard cant bat for them or play their shots, BUT, Maynard is DOC and batting coach now, someone has to take responsibility AND more importantly find a solution, it can't just keep happening match after match with no real change in approach.

I want to know what happens when players go back in the dressing room, like Allenby, Barrow, Cooper today, what is said? Do they get a rollicking? Is it, don't worry mate?, that's the way you play it's fine?

The big issue is there is nothing really we can do. None of the batters are under any pressure for their place, we have ZERO batting cover.
Can anyone name a second team top order batter who is a realistic option?
Please don't tell me Waller or Dockrell!

Even if the current top 6 just thought their was some pressure on their place it may help, but they all basically know they are assured to play again next week, and the week after.....

I am trying to find some positives but I am struggling so far.
The bowling has been decent in this game, not scary but decent, plus at least we have options there, (jove, alfie, lewis, meschede, dockrell, leach, dibble!) all in addition to this attack

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 23:21

Roger - Anyone with a brain can work out that batsmen need to tailor their approach to the conditions and match situation.

One doesn't need to be a first-class batsman to work this out.

What we are getting is plainly not good enough and indicates that players are failing to display the necessary mental resolve to aim to bat for long periods of time ( if one is aiming to bat for a long period of time one doesn't play wild shots as soon as one comes in).

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
Date: 10/05/2015 23:57

AGOD those of us who attend every hour of the home matches, and also many of the away matches do have BRAINS, even if you may not think so, and yes we can actually work out what we believe they should be doing.


I mostly go along with WSM posting of 23.15 and would add Peter Trego name.
Not sure myself also what part Rehman played in this match or should I say this season so far.
At least Leach was having a practice bowl during the Lunch break, which might be an option.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:11:00:02:10 by Roger ivanhoe.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: sandhills (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 00:13

Gents, I wonder how the players feel this evening, or last Tuesday, after the Middlesex and Durham matches. Let's get behind them, we are called supporters for a reason. Support them, be an extra player c'mon the boys need it now probably more than at any other time in their careers.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: 9th brother Dredge (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 03:39

I usually enjoy reading these match day threads on the evening of the day's play (this time in the middle of the night as I have a fever and can't sleep!) but I find the repeated criticisms of Cooper by one poster over the top and a little lacking in taste. Give the guy a break, please! I am willing him to do well as he has a touch of class about his batting which has been evident even in his short and relatively unproductive Somerset career to date. What's more, he is desperate to succeed for us and is a quality player with an excellent track record in high class cricket in Australia and for Holland. He will come good.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:11:03:44:08 by 9th brother Dredge.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 05:16

I have to agree with you 9th and I apologise for going over the top myself

(I will delete one specific post where I rose to a singularly patronizing comment and should not have.

Geordie but can I PLEASE ask you to read the posting thread and follow the correct procedure for dealing with stuff you don't like - I'm not sure I can make it any clearer in that thread and it is why you do not see your particular post on here this morning)

Constant carping about one player can do little good to anyone, especially when I think most of us are less skilled at the game than the player mentioned himself and he will be well aware himself of what happened and what should have happened.

Lord save me from self-appointed experts I suppose. Sorry one and all.

(Sm72)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 07:11

It seems to have been the same mistake three innings in a row so if he is aware of it, let's hope he is able to fix it, pronto.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 07:15

Yes, Roger, you can work out what you believe the batsmen should be doing. And so can I. I'm not a first-class batsman and neither, I assume, are you?

Let's leave it at that shall we, particularly as it seems that you yourself seem to agree with WSM's post in which, I would say, he sounds pretty exasperated with the shot selection.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 07:18

So I wonder if we'll get any clue in the next few days as to what, if anything, is going on with Rehman?

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 07:32

Sandhills - the players need to earn backing.

The batsmen need to make a conspicuous mental effort to rein themselves in and start to build totals. They will then be deserving of backing whether the side wins matches or not. But we need to see the requisite mental effort.

You can't expect people who care about both performances and results to simply shrug their shoulders when they see repeated collapses in which our guys barely attempt to play themselves in before attempting to hit the cover off the ball.

TG said on the other site that 'it must be a confidence thing.'

Well, it may well be by now but they didn't, presumably, begin the season sans confidence. Rather, I wouldn't be surprised if the reverse wasn't true.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 08:11

This is not directed at anybody in particular but I have just read this on another forum. It just looks a good statement from somebody.


You're not negative if you are factual, you can't lie about what you see

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 09:31

The players don't need to earn my backing, that sounds a little to me like only singing when you're winning.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:11:10:41:34 by Big Jim.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 09:47

Nah, BJ, it would be equivalent to only singing when you're obviously battling hard.

I'm sure you must have cheered many a backs-to-the-wall Hammers' effort that may not have ended in victory...

Personally, I'd gladly sing for a Somerset draw at Trent Bridge because we need to stop the bleeding. Even a defeat which goes the distance and without batting collapses would be a step in the right direction.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Sloop John B (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 09:47

I'm with 9th be on this. Excess verbiage of faux analysis does no one any good.
What I have seen of Tom Cooper's batting I have liked! Give him a break!!

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 09:57

Tom Cooper may well be a compulsive driver of the ball, I suppose (in the way that some players are compulsive hookers).

That might explain why the same issue has been a problem three times in a row i.e that he hasn’t managed to rectify it. But if that is the case then he may not be capable of rectifying the issue because he may be incapable of reining in his compulsive habit. To that extent, perhaps I have been unfair to him.

If so, then management will need to ask itself whether a compulsive driver makes for an ideal number three in early season English conditions, where there is liable to be a good deal of lateral movement. Maybe it will work very well if he gets to play in conditions where the ball is not swinging around.

Unless we get nice clear skies at Trent Bridge (or it is bitterly cold) then we have to expect that the ball may well swing in Nottingham.

So personally, I’d much rather have Tom Abell at number three, because I think we can be sure that Tom A will deliberately set out to try and occupy the crease for a period of time. Specifically, he is unlikely to take big risks early in his knock. That does not, of course, mean that he will necessarily succeed but – hopefully – he will give the top order a more solid look to it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:11:09:58:45 by AGod.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Palairet (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 09:59

No sign of the ?cheerleaders on here yet to say - "No problem, boys. We'll win this by mid afternoon with 3 wickets in hand!"

My word, we must be in a bad way.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 10:02

Any comments just create more verbage in come places people.

If you want less starve the comment. It's worked in the past.

If you don't agree then don't disagree either then you don't get another 4 posts telling you why you are obviously wrong and analyzing the pointless issue in even more detail to justify the pointless issue even further.

Oh that I could take my own sage advice!!

(Sm72)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 10:04

If only you could!

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 11:19

Yes I know CP but it's sooooo tempting and of course I am the only one who does it aren't I (and it does generate traffic which is the objective of every web manager - or so I'm told).

Oh and some people post the daftest of things.....

(Sm72)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Angell Face (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 11:38

Roger I, I'm afraid we're fighting a losing battle against AG. He is, of course entitled to his opinions. I just wish there were rather less of them and that they were expressed at longer intervals!

Regarding the current match, it's good to see that it is being played as a proper game of cricket instead of one of those extended practice sessions that have become the norm against touring teams. I haven't been able to get to Taunton so far but some of Mr. Hildreth's performances must have been worth the price of admission alone. He is a class act.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 11:41

Only until he gets bowled 3 times in 3 consecutive innings, playing on that Taunton wicket!! (Sm159)

(Sm72)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 11:41

Was nothing 'daft,' about it, Grockle, unless one is of the view that these dismissals of which I spoke resulted from something other than utterly injudicious shot selection.

And it wasn't about being bowled three successive times, per se. It was about being bowled - with naff all runs on the board - on three successive occasions as a result of essaying lavish drives at the ball. Once bitten, twice shy and all that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:11:11:43:28 by AGod.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 11:52

Aye, cut the lad some slack, he's obvious finding conditions a little different than those he's used to.....he'll get there, of that I'm certain.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Angell Face (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 11:53

To keep Palairet happy:- Come on lads. We can win this!!

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 11:55

He's probably more likely to get there if batted lower down the order, further away from a swinging new ball.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Roger ivanhoe (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 12:13

Angel Face, it's the difference between having an opinion, and being opinionated that get up my nose (and others I think).


Watching Hildreth in full flow is a delight, likewise with Tres when at his best.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 12:27

Well, likely to be beaten by 90 or so runs in the end, probably, now Hildreth is out.

To be honest, the result to this match was secondary (as wonderful as a win would have been). For me, the aim was to try and get more of the players who weren't in much form into decent form.

On that count, we can maybe say that perhaps 3 or 4 out of 10 that weren't in great form seem to have made some progress - TG with 9 in the match, Craig O with some wkts, some runs and very economical second innings bowling, Jim A with some good bowling and TA with a fairly long bat. Davey had an encouraging first-innings debut by most accounts, but perhaps not so much in the second dig.

So not as bad as it could have been from a getting folks into form point of view, but not exactly an unqualified success on that score either.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:11:12:41:38 by AGod.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Bobstan (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 12:35

We've achieved my hope for the day, ie losing by fewer than 100 runs.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 12:37

TG repeating some of the pyrotechnics that he showed in home 50 over games last season. And Wheeler perhaps discovering what it is like to bowl at Taunton when the ball is not swinging!

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 12:40

I suppose TG has seen off Josh Davey, for now, in terms of competing for a first-team place.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 12:44

Well played James Hildreth and Tim Groenewald.

Send most of the others back to the Acadamy.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Goonie goo goo (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 12:49

a bit of fight at last. If one other top order batter had got his act together we could actually have beaten them.

Better but still a defeat.

Is Hildy going to get 1000 before May is out? He must have about 800 by now!!!

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 12:56

Well they got closer than I thought they would

BJ forget it... you know you accuse me of never being wrong.

Once AG has posted something it seems it is naturally impossible for him to back up on that. All he can do is keep writing about it until everyone else realizes that life is passing them by and leaves him to it.

Cooper is OK, he's done better than most and from what I've heard has a solid manner of batting that will get runs more often than not.

The fact that he has been bowled three times with 'naff all' on the board is irrelevant.

He has been coming into a situation where there has been 'naff all' on the board and fairly decent bowlers with a newish ball and their tails up after taking the men in front of him for 'naff all'

Injudicious shot selection in some cases maybe but you don't get picked up by a side looking for batsmen and then decide to leave your brain in Australia along with your 'gorm' and just come here to throw the bat.

And cricket supporters don't write off one of their side on the basis of three bowled dismissals for 'naff all' unless they have seen the three dismissals personally and know what kind of shots were played in what kind of context. Well not unless they took their own brains out and left their 'gorm' at home as well.

On to Notts with not a lot to show for this game except some semi-decent bowling and Hilda in some kind of form it seems.

Tom Abell got some runs under his belt I suppose and Tim did show he can put it to the opposition with the bat when asked - one day stuff perhaps. Craig O was going well as well it seems until he knocked his own wicket over.

But it's a little gloomy over there ladies and gentlemen, CC1 Hope could become a sparse commodity unless this form starts to turn 'up noorth'

(Sm72)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 13:11

We do know the context of the dismissals. That's the whole point. A ball swinging around and the side having already lost at least one quick wicket in all three instances and then, per reports in all three cases, lavish drives played before he had any kind of personal score on the board.

And he hasn't really done "better than most," given that three other members of the top five have a ton, and he has yet to score a 50.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 13:13

For the record, Hildreth has scored 640 FC runs this season @ 71.11, five runs fewer than Hales. He will have a maximum of four innings before the end of May. His century today was his 33rd.

LoL

Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Goonie goo goo (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 13:28

what about the 150 or so he scored for MCC? are you including that?

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 13:39

Yes he did Ggg:

[stats.espncricinfo.com]

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 13:42

And here are our bowling figures:

[stats.espncricinfo.com]

The hope with Rehman would - surely - have been that, even if he didn't take many wickets early doors, he would at least provide a very high level of control for Tres?

Well, his economy rate is okay but it is:

a) nowhere near good enough to mitigate a bowling average of 101 (!)

and

b) No better, in that regard, than some of the seamers, including both Overtons and Jim A.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:11:13:45:24 by AGod.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: sandhills (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 13:47

"Angel Face, it's the difference between having an opinion, and being opinionated that get up my nose (and others I think).


Watching Hildreth in full flow is a delight, likewise with Tres when at his best."


I could not agree more well said

They are just plain rude, would they like to be spoken about their own personal performance in the way they speak about the players, on forum for all to consume.
I doubt it.

It would not be so bad if they actually attended a match. They are not supporters they just criticize and make comment hoping someone to respond to fill their sad existence so they can make another comment. Radio Listeners and Scorecard watchers!!!!!!

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 13:49

How do you now the context? Were you there? You have at best a personal perspective of a context from someone who was there for your own personal bias to turn into your own perspective of context.

It ain't the same thing, you know it I know it and everyone else knows it.

Unless you are watching a game you have no idea what the true nature of the game is. If you think you do then I'm afraid you need some kind of reality check.

But we've been here before and, as usual, you will know best. But we can but try.

Oh there are 11 batsmen in a team by the way. Some of our best seem to be at the wrong end of the side at the moment.

(Sm72)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Bagpuss (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 13:50

On current form the difference between batting at 3 for Somerset and batting at 5 is about two and a half overs.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 13:55

Gosh that ball must be really rough by then! It's scary isn't it. Bowler just getting into his stride and here comes Tommy Cooper because the openers have gone to his looseners!

(Sm72)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 13:56

As I've explained before, it is perfectly possible to put together a cogent picture of events based on a variety of sources. We have commentary to listen to, reports to read, accounts from those that were at the ground, often there is film of the dismissals etc etc

And - once again - as I made the point last time you brought this up - none of your precious eye-witnesses (who are the only people who can possibly know what has happened, according to you) who did see his shots have said anything other than that they were poor.

Or have you seen a single account, anywhere, that says anything other than that these dismissals of which I spoke were poor?

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 13:59

Yes, Bagpuss, but one hopes that a more solid top three might manage to increase the difference in time elapsed, betwixt the number 3 coming out and the number 5 coming out.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: sandhills (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:07

20 mins gone no comment.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:12

You tried this last time yes and it was the same bovine content then as it is now. Your sources are secondary and your context is already set to make sure that the sources confirm an opinion that you want it to confirm. Like it or not a primary context can only be arrived at by you with primary data and you don't have any.

And once again, before we start talking about the 'variety of sources' I'd remind you that that variety has almost disappeared in the past few years. Some of your sources are tertiary perspectives of secondary views of people doing no more than reading the stuff you are reading. There aren't three or four correspondents reporting on this and NONE of those reporting are questioning Cooper's ability to play the game against the 'swinging ball' or away from Adelaide. That's just coming from one source.

No-one is saying the shots were glorious quality but then again no-one but you is basing the whole of the man's performance since he arrived on the basis of those three balls and extrapolating ahead on the basis of 'naff all' with such massive arrogant confidence.

Question his shot selection by all means but one of the things that hits more people here is your polar comments about players and their abilities based on almost nothing of value.

But carry on by all means. People stopped taking notice a while ago and I'm going to join them until I see Cooper for myself.

(Sm72)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:14

For example, Grockle, at about the 40 second mark, here is Cooper's demise (with an extravagant drive) vs Worcs.

[www.ecbtv.co.uk]

I would add another point for the "You can't possibly know if you weren't there," brigade:

When I go to games, I ALWAYS sit as close as possible to behind the arm. But I know an awful lot of people who don't always do that. The video of dismissals is usually from very close to straight on. It, IMO, provides a better picture of what has occurred with any given dismissal than anybody LIVE at a game could hope to achieve from a position that is not very straight on.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: sandhills (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:17

30 mins now!!!!!!!!!

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:18

"No-one is saying the shots were glorious quality but then again no-one but you is basing the whole of the man's performance since he arrived on the basis of those three balls and extrapolating ahead on the basis of 'naff all' with such massive arrogant confidence."

I said nothing about the 'whole of the man's performance since he arrived.'

What I've said is that, in the context of the match and innings situations and of the prevailing conditions (generally good for bowling) - as described on the commentary - and subsequently backed up by comments made by Somerset players on the official website, these 3 shots were, frankly, inappropriate and irresponsible in the circumstances.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:19

Quote:
sandhills

They are just plain rude, would they like to be spoken about their own personal performance in the way they speak about the players, on forum for all to consume.
I doubt it.

It would not be so bad if they actually attended a match. They are not supporters they just criticize and make comment hoping someone to respond to fill their sad existence so they can make another comment. Radio Listeners and Scorecard watchers!!!!!!

I am curious to know the identity of they Sandhills.

Have you found there to be many such writing on here in that particular vein?

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Angell Face (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:22

Hate to disagree with LoL but my arithmetic says that Hildreth has scored 778 First Class runs this season average just over 70 if one includes the Durham MCCU match which Cricinfo terms First Class.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: sandhills (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:23

Clarence Parker

There are a number I'm surprised you haven't noticed!!!

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Sloop John B (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:25

Grockle. I have previously taken your advice hence I post rarely!

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:28

AF -

1) I'm not sure if Cricinfo is the arbiter of what does or does not count as first-class?

2) Even if it is, it seems from its own figures - that I posted earlier - Cricinfo has not added the Durham runs to Hildreth's total.*

* I presume that the figures are up to date because TG is listed as having hit five sixes this season and I don't remember him hitting many prior to today?

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Clarence Parker (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:29

Sandhills

You have clearly noticed a lot that I have not.

Some comments have been expressed by those who were actually at the game in question, and so would not be a part of the "they" that you criticize.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Angell Face (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:31

A God, regarding your comments about the sources available to you ( your post 13.56), one might take your views more seriously if you had known whether the New Zealand match was 3 days or 4!

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:33

I still have ears and eyes though, AF.........

(although I confess to having paid no attention, before the match, to how long it was scheduled to be)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2015:05:11:14:34:47 by AGod.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:35

To be fair, most Somerset games this season have been 3 days.

(Sm159)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:38

AF I found the same stats has LoL did on Cricinfo. [stats.espncricinfo.com]
they say five first class matches, can you think of more than five first class matches JH has played in?

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:39

But Middx were probably the only ones not to beat us well inside the distance, Chunky....

(TIC)

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: chunkyinargyll (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:40

Is one of those matches the MCC match in Abu Dhabi? I think it counts as part of the english 2015 season.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:41

Hildreth will have played the MCC game, 3 CC matches and the game vs NZ, MIke, as well as the Durham Uni game.

Hence, why I say that I don't think cricinfo have added any runs from the Durham Uni fixture to his total, even if they did appear to say that it was first-class.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Angell Face (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:48

Mike TA1, the Champion County match, Durham MCCU match (if, as Cricinfo says, that one is First Class), three CC1 matches and the NZ match just finished. I don't have the latest Wisden but the 2013 Wisden treated the MCCU matches as First Class.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Angell Face (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:53

Problem solved. Hildreth has scored 640 First Class runs FOR SOMERSET this season plus 138 for MCC v. Yorkshire.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 14:56

Well done AF, that has solved it.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grizzers (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 15:07

Well, at least we made a game of it by the looks of it.

Well done James (please keep fit & don't get selected for England !) & also TG.

Now, let's start the season afresh from here.

He said hopefully,.........................

Grizzzly

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 15:10

He'd have to do this for about two seasons to have much of a shot at England, one would think.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Goonie goo goo (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 15:12

so to answer my question he hadn't included the MCC fixture?

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Bagpuss (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 15:20

Re the University matches - each MCCU plays three matches against county opposition and the first two of those matches have first-class status. Seems daft to me, either they are or they aren't, but this means the match Somerset played v Durham MCCU was a first-class match (it being the first county match of Durham Uni's season). Incidentally Oxford MCCU's match against Surrey when Pietersen scored a hundred was Oxford's third county match and thus didn't have first-class status.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 15:26

Won't matter now he's slain the might Leics - he must be recalled immediately!

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 15:37

... as captain.

LoL

Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 15:40

And coach. There's a vacancy, don't you know..

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 15:45

... and Buttler's keeping has been a bit below par.

LoL

Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 15:47

I'm very happy to be proved wrong about JH's runs. He needn't worry about 1000 by the end of the month and just concentrate on 3000 by the end of the season.

LoL

Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Loyal of Lhasa (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 16:43

... and I know when you ARE. Don't leave us.

I find that there are far too many posts here, albeit by a minority of posters, who dish out criticisms of professional players (who are not actually trying to play badly) that they would not stomach if made of their own professional efforts. I am not claiming never to have erred similarly, but for some among us criticism seems to be the main element of the fuel on which they run.

LoL

Seventy-eight Seasons a Somerset Supporter

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Wickham (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 16:49

GM: it is always a pleasure to read your posts and I hope to be able to read many more.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Big Jim (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 17:15

I totally agree with the two previous posts.
Don't go GM, you really are one of the good guys.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Mike TA1 (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 17:38

4th days photos.

A entertaining morning, what a shame on what might have been if only …....

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Craig%20Overton%204%20runs.jpg

Apart from losing Josh Davey second ball the rest of the morning play was entertaining to watch.
Craig Overton gave us something to watch with this four.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Craig%20Overton%20out%20hit%20wicket%20bld%20Mark%20Craig.jpg

The disappointment when we realised how he was out Hit Wicket bowled Mark Craig.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/James%20Hildreth%204%20runs%20and%20his%20100%201.jpg

James Hildreth's good form continues this four brings up his 100.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/James%20Hildreth%204%20runs%20and%20his%20100%202.jpg

It was good to see some of the New Zealand players clapping when he reached his 100.

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Tim%20Groenewald%206%20runs.jpg

When Tim Groenewald was batting it was raining six's

http://i1152.photobucket.com/albums/p490/cricketphotos1/Cricket%20Photos/2015%20Somerset%20Cricket%20Photos/Tourist%20and%20Women%20matches%20%202015/Somerset%20v%20New%20Zealand%20starting%208th%20May%202015/Tim%20Groenewald%20bld%20Mark%20Craig.jpg

Mark Craig troubled the batsmen taking five wickets which included Tim Groenewald.

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: AGod (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 19:37

Great photos Mike, for which many thanks.

Craig troubling our batsmen troubles me in light of Rehman's figures for the match.

I struggle to believe that the track deteriorated sharply after the third innings of the match and before the fourth?

Re: Kiwi. Can we? Can't we?
Posted by: Grockle (IP Logged)
Date: 11/05/2015 19:39

And we are back to the very reason why I requested that this kind of stuff be kept OFF the main site and why I posted a request to operate these complaints in a more private way

And also why I'm closing this thread.

I have replied to Geordie who, had he read the postings thread that I put up at the start of the season and followed that procedure would have received exactly the moderation he did in fact receive and requested. I removed his original post to try and shut off fuel to the fire.

PLEASE follow the advice given in the posting thread and those posters who do not get involved in petty whinging about petty posting.

I sometimes fail to see how these "champions" of supposed good taste are any better than those who lose it occasionally on here. They simply whinge about a different thing that adds to the whinging going on about a cricket issue.

Those who criticise cricket decisions have the right to, those who excessively nit pick and criticise have every right to be questioned about their comments.

Other posters who do not want to get involved in the 'discussion' coming on and nit picking and criticising those who are discussing the point do nothing but allow others who enjoy fuelling fires to do so and create an atmosphere like the one now on this thread.

Meanwhile other poster's attempts to get the thread back on some kind of track are then interspersed with posts from those who won't let their poster criticism go. The thread becomes "un-moderatable" and it shuts down.

Apologies Geordie that I did not respond to your first post via PM (Which I should have). Once I press the delete button I cannot PM to that message. I hope I have made myself clear in the second. The comment simply asked you to take another form of action in the future and no more than that. I'd say the same to Sandhills. Please complain specifically about something that has been posted via the PM system rather than talking about 'they' and 'them' on the public thread. I can't moderate with that kind of complaint.

I've mentioned this in the posting thread and as others seem to use this as a regular threat maybe I should as well. Grockles is NOT a mandatory fixture in my life either. When it stops being enjoyable it WILL stop existing. I may just do what Botham has been saying I do for years. I may just take my "ball" home unless posters start to take notice of requests made quite clearly to them about how to make complaints that are sometimes quite justified but can also sometimes come over as a bunch of old fogies harpingback to some kind of 'good old days' and which also as effectively destroy threads

Deal with your own posts please, get on with your own discussions, let some people let off steam occasionally and complain IN PRIVATE if you really do feel the need to do so.

I'll only ask so many times ladies and gentlemen

If you want to continue this debate please take it OFF FORUM to the Other One and moan to your hearts content there

Thank you.

(Sm72)

This Thread has been closed
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